The Permanent Preciousness of the “Secular” Jew

Posted on | August 7, 2012 | By Guest Contributor | 52 Comments

Regular contributor and commentor, Menachem Lipkin emailed us this thought provoking article by Rabbi Nathan Lopes Cardozo of the The David Cardozo Academy. Rabbi Lopes Cardozo was kind enough to allow us to post the article on Beyond Teshuva. You can find the original here.

Originally Posted Apr 5, 2006
We are living in an age of flaunting irreverence. Debunking has become the norm and wherever we turn we experience a need to reveal the clay feet of even the greatest. Human dignity, while often referred to, has become a farce in real life. Instead of deliberately looking for opportunities to love our fellow men as required by our holy Torah, many have rewritten this golden rule to read: “Distrust your fellow men as you distrust thyself”. Disbelief in themselves has overflown into their relationships with their fellowmen. Fear for their own deeds and mediocrity has led them to believe that the spiritual mighty have left us and that we are a generation of spiritual orphans.

This condition has slowly entered into the subconscious of segments of the religious community as well, although in a more subtle form. Influenced by materialistic philosophies, many a religious personality, once known for his reverence for his fellow men, has, without being aware of it, become part of the problem. Instead of sending a message of unaltered love and respect for a fellow Jew, whatever his background or beliefs, many within the religious Jewish community have fallen victim to a kind of faint debunking which has led to a most worrisome situation in and outside the land of Israel.

When observing even those who are fully committed to help their fellow Jews find their way back to Judaism we see an attitude which is foreign to religious life and thought. Without denying their love for their fellow Jews, we cannot escape the impression that there exists a kind of talking down to “secular” Jews, which has become the norm.

Constant emphasis is placed on the need to cure the secular’s mistaken lifestyle. No doubt such an attitude is born out of love for one’s fellow Jew but it lays the foundation for infinite trouble. It is built on arrogance. While the religious Jew is seen as the ideal, it turns the “secular” Jew into a second class member of the Jewish people. It is he who needs to repent for his mistaken ways. Such an attitude is built on the notion of contrast and lack of affinity. The “secular” Jew will always feel inferior. As such the point of departure through which one would like to bring fellow Jews closer to Judaism is at the same time its undoing. The suggestion that “One should throw oneself into a burning furnace rather then insult another person publicly” (Berachoth 43b) may very well apply, since it is the community of “secular” Jews which is being treated with the notion of inferiority.

For Jews to bring their fellowmen back to Judaism there is a need to celebrate the mitzvoth which the “secular” Jew has been observing all or part of his/her life. Not his failure to observe some others. Only through the notion of sharing in mitzvoth will an authentic way to be found to bring Jews back home.

The foundation should be humility not arrogance. There is little doubt that “secular” Jews, consciously or unconsciously, keep a great amount of commandments. Many of them may not be in the field of rituals, but there is massive evidence that inter-human mitzvoth enjoy a major commitment among “secular” Jews. Beneath the divisiveness of traditional commitment lie underpinnings of religion such as compassion, humility, awe and even faith. Different are the pledges, but equal are the devotions. It may quite well be that the minds of the religious and not religious Jew do not fully meet, but their spirits touch. Who will deny that “secular” Jews have no sense of mystery, of forgiveness, beauty and gentleness? How many of them do not have inner faith that God cares or show great contempt for fraud or double standards? Each of them are the deepest of religious values.

This does not only call for a celebration but may well become an inspiration for religious Jews. This is not just done by honoring “secular” Jews for keeping these mitzvoth but in restoring ourselves in their mitzvoth and good deeds. There is a need to make the so called irreligious Jew aware of the fact that he is much more religious than he may realize. It is the realization that God’s light often shines on his/her face just as much, if not more, than on the face of the religious Jew.

Just as the irreligious personality needs to prove that he is worthy to be the friend of a religious Jew, the religious Jew needs to be worthy of the friendship of his secular fellow Jew. It would be a most welcome undertaking if religious Jews would call on their “irreligious” fellow Jews for guidance in mitzvoth which demand their greater commitment.

There is a great need for calling Jews back to their roots by showing them that they never left. Once religious Jews start to learn that irreligious Jews are their equals, and not their inferiors, a comeback to Judaism on the right terms will come about.

One of the tragic failures of ancient Jews was their indifference to the Ten Tribes of Israel which were carried away by Assyria after the Northern Kingdom was destroyed. Overlooked and not taking seriously by their fellow Jews, they were consigned to oblivion and ultimately vanished.

This is a nightmare that at this moment in Jewish history, should terrify each and every religious Jew: The unawareness of our being involved in a new failure, in a tragic dereliction of duty.

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Comments

52 Responses to “The Permanent Preciousness of the “Secular” Jew”

Rishona
April 5th, 2006 @ 10:32 am

Wow, very intriguing article!

I must admit, as a non-Jew making an effort to become a full, Torah observant Jew, it’s difficult to see a born Jew empty out his lunch from a Burger King bag and proclaim, “All of those ‘Jewish kosher laws’ are really senseless!”. The knee-jerk reaction is that he’s making a mockery of Judaism and totally knows about it! But the truth is that many non-relgious Jews do not have an accurate, positive view of Judaism; due to lack of exposure, Jewish education, etc. There was a time when I myself thought that not driving on Shabbat made no sense as well! I think it is Chabad who teach that there is no such thing as a “bad Jew”; only Jews who do mitzvot, and Jews who do more mitzvot! That’s a pretty good idea to keep in mind when interacting with non-relgious Jews.
Steve Brizel
April 5th, 2006 @ 10:48 am

This is a very important article which anyone in the kiruv world should read. IOW, show the would be BT the way, but never engage either in an explicit or implicit put down of his current station in life.
Bob Miller
April 5th, 2006 @ 11:04 am

It boils down to “what motivates people to improve themselves spiritually ?”

I don’t know how far one can generalize about secular (or religious) Jews. They reached their current situations in many different ways and for many different reasons, and not all respond alike to praise or criticism.

I am not sure how well Rabbi Lopes Cardozo’s thesis about the Ten Tribes holds up. Some members of the Ten Tribes are known to have found their way to the Kingdom of Judah and have Jewish descendants.
See http://www.ics.uci.edu/~dan/genealogy/Miller/issachar.htm
Many others were dragged off to places unknown. Still others had been confirmed idolators in the “old country” and remained immune to Judaism thereafter.
JewishAtheist
April 5th, 2006 @ 11:32 am

Although your remarks may not refer to people like me, who are not just secular but have chosen to be secular despite our religious upbringing, I thank you for recognizing what too often gets missed: that our commitment to inter-human mitzvoth is serious.
Shoshie
April 5th, 2006 @ 12:54 pm

It is articles like this that frustrate me to no end. Sometimes I wonder whether the writer and some of the commenters have ever met the same people I met and currently live with throughout my journey to Judaism?

To claim, “Constant emphasis is placed on the need to cure the secular’s mistaken lifestyle. No doubt such an attitude is born out of love for one’s fellow Jew but it lays the foundation for infinite trouble. It is built on arrogance.”

I truly believe that making such a statement is the height of arrogrance. I’ve met very few observant Jews in Kiruv [and in general] who believe that THEY are better people than others. They believe that the lifestyle espoused by Hakadosh Baruch Hu is better. They are no different than the nutritionist who tries to get people to eat differently, the trainer who tries to get people to do more physical excercise etc. How Rabbi Cardoza makes the claim that Frum people think they’re better is very much a mystery to me.

“Once religious Jews start to learn that irreligious Jews are their equals, and not their inferiors, a comeback to Judaism on the right terms will come about.”

Assuming they don’t already know that all Jews are equal [something that I highly doubt], what makes Rabbi Cardoza so certain that this is the magic wand that will bring all Jews back?

“One of the tragic failures of ancient Jews was their indifference to the Ten Tribes of Israel which were carried away by Assyria after the Northern Kingdom was destroyed.”

This too, is a creation of Rabbi Cardoza. To make a claim like this he must substantiate it with proffs from the texts, Talmud, commentaries – whatever. He offers no proof at all and it’s hard to imagine that he’s right on this point. A superficial reading of the texts certainly does not lend support to his assertions. I would love to hear if someone can back up his words.

For the record, I will be the first to agree that in our interactions with Jews of all stripes, they must first and foremost feel our love and acceptance of them as people and Jews. Effective Kiruv does not exist in the absence of that trait. But to claim that Frum people at large are guilty of doing the opposite is downright wrong and slanderous. Just about every person who frequents this board [and hundreds of thousands of others] are products of the Kiruv movement, so somebody’s doing something right. I’d love to see an article discussing how devoted and loving the selfless Mekarvim are. I know that but for the infinite patience, love, understanding, and acceptance, I received at the hands of my rabbi and rebbetzin and their entire community, I would not be here today. The same is true for most BT’s. Why some feel the need to constantly diminish their amazing accomplishments is beyond me.
David Linn
April 5th, 2006 @ 1:27 pm

Bob Miller and Shoshie:

Regarding Rabbi Cardozo’s point about the Ten Tribes being enslaved by the Assyrians, if you are quibbling with the Rabbi’s attributing this to the indifference of the Southern Kingdom, I agree that is a debatable point. It actually seems that the Southern Kingdom had very strong grounds for turning their backs on the Northern kingdom, not the least of which were the constuction of idols and the building of their own “local altars” to discourage going to Yerushalayim to worship.

If you are arguing whether the 10 tribes were actually exiled to Assyria, that is a fairly well established fact. In addition to all of the other evidence, the discovered writings of the Assyrian King Sargon II testifies to this.

Bob’s point that some members of the Northern Kingdom escaped or travelled elsewhere is certainly possible but I son’t think that detracts from the overall historical point.

I was recently in Tel Dan and have some interesting pictures of the area where the podium that Yeravam placed the Golden Calf on was located and where the evidence of the altar was found. Anyone interested in seeing those can email me at beyondbt@gmail.com
Steve Brizel
April 5th, 2006 @ 2:27 pm

Shoshie-Do you ever recall if your rav and rebbitzen ever made you feel guilty about your prior lifestyle or having read anything that smacks of what is called Orthodox triumphalism?

Moreover, once the Ten Tribes went into exile, they vanished from Jewish history. Notwithstanding Bob’s comments, we have no way of ascertaining whether their members survived as Jews in any recognizable manner or ever returned to Klal Yisrael-despite the claims asserted in the link to the contrary. Tanach offers us very little evidence that there was any iteraction between the remaining tribes and the Ten Lost Tribes and that is wby at least one view in Chazal is that they were lost for perpetuity.That was R Cardozo’s point.
Steve Brizel
April 5th, 2006 @ 2:45 pm

Shoshie-The other issue that R Cardozo was driving at was a not-yet frum Jew is as much a member of Klal Yisrael as a frum Jew. of course, that does mean that they are on the same spiritual level. Rashi in Parshas Reeh emphasizes that all Jews have a common heritage that goes back to the Avos. Yet, there are huge differences based upon what one does with that heritage.

Like it or not, we tend to forget that not yet frum Jews may lead a halachically and hashkafically challenged way of life, but are Baalei Chesed, etc in many ways that we can and should learn from in our own lives.Look at it this way-there are many “BT memoirs” that bemoan their former lives which may have included higher education, well-paying jobs, material success, as if there was absolutely no value to the same. Have we not discussed the religious, ethical and psychological dimensions of this very issue-whether one should integrate one’s past or totally walk away from it?
A Newcomer
April 5th, 2006 @ 3:16 pm

I’ve been lurking on BT for a week now, this is my first time responding to anything. I really appreciate this article. I grew up with a some religion, but not a lot. I joined a deaf Jewish Singles group a number of years back. The people who run it are orthodox, and a lot of the members are as well. I tried very hard to respect them, but there were a few times that I made mistakes, or there were misunderstandings, and I did something incorrect (mostly related with kosher rules). The result was my receiving several lectures by the orthodox (some members, and some of the people who ran the group) about how what I was doing was wrong, and basically made to feel like I was a bad person. (one actually compared me to an animal!) This not only soured me, but I quickly retreated from any growth that I started that time (i.e. I went from attending services a couple of times a month to only going on the High Holidays for a few years after these occurrences). I did wind up marrying someone who was involved in the group (but who NEVER gave me a hard time about being who I was) who is “modern orthodox.” Between the warmth of her family, and the Chabad community we are now living in, I have finally started growing again. I even bought my first set of Tefillin a month ago, and they are getting regular use. But any time I see any of the people from the original group (it’s a small world, after all…) my mental shields of distrust slam down again. I might have been further along now if I wasn’t browbeaten earlier.

Anyway, just my thoughts. I may not be BT yet, but I’m learning more and more, and more importantly, I’m doing more and more. (I actually requested the day off for all 4 Yom Tov days for Pesach this year, a first) Since this is my first response, I hope I’m not breaking any BT etiquette or anything…
David Linn
April 5th, 2006 @ 3:34 pm

A Newcomer,

Welcome aboard! Sounds like you are growing to me. We need comments here from people coming from all different paths to growth. No etiquette faux pas at all.
Bob Miller
April 5th, 2006 @ 3:34 pm

The idea that part of one’s pre-teshuva past can often be usefully retained and built on in the present should be obvious. Effective kiruv requires all parties involved to have this understanding and to learn practical ways to use it.

But it was not necessary for Rabbi Lopes Cardozo (who has impressed me greatly as a speaker and writer) to deploy an array of grand generalizations and stereotypes and historical speculations about how the Orthodox act and the secular react.
Menachem Lipkin
April 5th, 2006 @ 3:49 pm

From Shoshie:

“Just about every person who frequents this board [and hundreds of thousands of others] are products of the Kiruv movement, so somebody’s doing something right.”

Shoshie, while most of us here owe much to those people and/or organizations who were Mekarev us, this hubris is part of the problem that Rabbi Cardozo was addressing.

The numbers of people that have been Mekarev are no where near “hundreds of thousands”. (There are only around 500,000 orthodox Jews in America. That would mean that most of them are BTs!) I’m sure there are professionals here who can give us more accurate numbers, but I think that the numbers are more in the thousands. This is not just a pedantic point. For all the wonderful work that is done in Kiruv, the “success” pales in comparison to our overall failure.

In the US alone we have basically already lost 2 million Jews and are on the verge of losing another 2 million. (According to Rabbi Buchwald of NJOP of the 6 million Jews in the US; 2 million don’t even identify as Jews and another 2 million identify as Jews but are not affiliated with any Jewish organizations.) These are the “ten tribes” that Rabbi Cardozo is metaphorically referring to and this is the nightmare that should terrify us. He and other forward thinking Kiruv professionals are trying to find new approaches that may help mitigate this tragedy.
Shoshie
April 5th, 2006 @ 4:08 pm

Steve and Menachem,

I don’t recall my rav or rebbetzin ever making me feel bad about my past. I was overwhelmed by their devotion to me and the others who overtook their lives and while I didn’t always agree with them, I found their sincerity and devotion so compelling that I didn’t obsess over the type of sentiments you describe. I have also attended many lectures and met with many other Mekarvim and almost never experienced the trimuphalism you describe.

I always took the approach that it is hard for someone to teach you a new way of life, without in some way putting down your old one and I didn’t hold it against them. I recognized and they always stressed that it wasn’t me they were advocating against, but a lifestyle that I didn’t choose.

“Tanach offers us very little evidence that there was any iteraction between the remaining tribes and the Ten Lost Tribes and that is wby at least one view in Chazal is that they were lost for perpetuity.That was R Cardozo’s point.”

No it wasn’t. We all knew that already. His point was that the southern Kingdom was to blame for not caring enough. He wrote, “One of the tragic failures of ancient Jews was their indifference to the Ten Tribes of Israel which were carried” – He’s blaming their “indifference”. To make a claim like that he needs to quote a valid source. He didn’t and I don’t accept it at all.

Menachem,
You are probably right that the numbers are not what I stated. They are, however, more than a few thousand. And to lay the blame at our feet is ridiculous. It has alot more to do with the movements that teach them a false brand of Judaism than our inability to reach out to them.

Have you ever spent a day on a college campus trying to do Kiruv? Do you have a clue about how difficult it is to attract students to Judaism no matter how big your smile? It’s our deli dinners against their non-Jewish gf’s, fast food, college parties etc…

To claim that our failure is a result of being smug and arrogant is to miss the point entirely. It would make more sense for him to write about how much more we need to reach out to our brethren, devote time to Kiruv, support Kiruv organizations, encourage our children to get involved when they’re older, join Partners in Torah.

Instead we get an article about how we’re all just arrogant and THAT’s why they’re not coming back. Spare me please.
David Linn
April 5th, 2006 @ 4:20 pm

I don’t think that Rabbi Cardozo’s point is limited to those ivolved in formal kiruv. It is also an issue for those that are not.

Shoshie, it is great that you did not experience any of this alleged triumphalism, I also have not. That does not mean, on the other hand, that it does not exist. I have had numerous BTs (some of whom have gone off the derech) tell me that they have experienced or perceived this attitude. For example, “A Newcomer” mentions his personal experience in comment 9 above. If this is an impediment to some (perceived or actual), it is certainly something worthwhile addressing.
Steve Brizel
April 5th, 2006 @ 4:48 pm

Shoshie-I have always felt that kiruv on a college campus, as opposed to adolescent style kiruv ala NCSY or adult post-college kiruv is a very difficult enterprise. Many, if not most college students, are interested in their grades and a good social life-despite all that we know about the toxic cultural and academic milieu that is called “campus life” and which Tom Wolfe so brilliantly skewered in a recent book. Kiruv under such a setting requires much mesiras nefesh by any kiruv worker and students who can walk away from that environment.
Shoshie
April 5th, 2006 @ 4:49 pm

David,

I do not doubt that such things have occurred. But they are not the norm and don’t deserve to be written about as if they were. Not every stereotype needs to be treated like an epidemic.

Furthermore, read his words and you’ll see that the impression is that it’s a widespread problem.
“Instead of sending a message of unaltered love and respect for a fellow Jew, whatever his background or beliefs, MANY within the religious Jewish community…When observing EVEN THOSE WHO ARE FULLY COMMITTED TO HELP their fellow Jews find their way back to Judaism we see an attitude…”

He’s talking about MANY in the broad community and EVEN those in Kiruv. Who’s he leaving out exactly?

There’s something about this site that I find hard to reconcile. On the one hand everyone’s always talking about how much we need to be appreciated and loved and tolerated by the frum community…On the other hand, there’s so much criticism of the frum community, the schools, the mekarvim… It’s somewhat incongruous and leaves me shaking my head often. We’re so quick to find and point out the flaws in everything they do. And yet, they’re never quite tolerant enough. Here’s a great example of that. An article on how they’re subconsciously “triumphant”! Whatever.
Shoshie
April 5th, 2006 @ 4:52 pm

Steve,

For my money, NCSY may be the best and easiest way to go becuse they’re not in the college environment and they’re not tethered to spouses and children who won’t tolerate further growth.

Kiruv is a very demanding business and to see an article here claiming that Mekarvim are arrogant and tiumphant is insulting and out of place. It simply doesn’t square with the facts.
Mark Frankel
April 5th, 2006 @ 4:59 pm

I think Rabbi Cordozo makes the very valid point that we need to judge people more favorably and find the good that they are already doing. The fact that he negatively judges Kiruv professionals in the same article, shows how difficult this is.

Being judged negatively is one of the four major reasons that Aish gives as to why people don’t approach Observant Judaism.

But I think in terms of numbers, the reason that Kiruv is not more successful is because not enough people are doing it, which is why Aish has started their Project Inspired, to get the lay people involved.

However judging from the responses to Phil’s recent mezzuzah post, I think most of us will play it safe and not take the first steps that Project Inspired is looking for.
Mark Frankel
April 5th, 2006 @ 5:05 pm

“There’s something about this site that I find hard to reconcile. On the one hand everyone’s always talking about how much we need to be appreciated and loved and tolerated by the frum community…On the other hand, there’s so much criticism of the frum community, the schools, the mekarvim…”

Shoshie

The Torah requires us to both recognize the positive and work on eliminating the negative.

I think you may be sensitive to the criticism so you are not seeing all the positive recognition that also goes on here.
SephardiLady
April 5th, 2006 @ 5:20 pm

I’ve experienced plenty of Orthodox triumpalism and it is not just between non-Orthodox and Orthodox. It is great that some of you haven’t. I figured that it was the norm.
Ruby
April 5th, 2006 @ 5:47 pm

Just so Shoshie doesn’t have to go it alone, she expressed (comment #5) very well the exact sentiments I felt when I read the article. I haven’t done any studies, but the Kiruv professionals I know are anything but arrogant. Great analogy to “the nutritionist who tries to get people to eat differently, the trainer who tries to get people to do more physical excercise etc.” Are there misguided ones out there like “Newcomer” met? I am sure there are. But since I’ve met many of the former kind and none of the latter, I would like to believe that the misguided ones are the exception, not the rule.

And I further agree with her comment #13 that the millions of assimilated and unaffiliated Jews are far, far more due to lack of interest, education, ability to commit, etc… on their part (and lack of initiative on our part, as Mark points out) than the arrogance of those that would educate them about Judaism.
David Linn
April 5th, 2006 @ 6:15 pm

“There’s something about this site that I find hard to reconcile.”

Let’s keep in mind that this piece wasn’t written by a contributor to our site. Rather, it was written by a well known and respected Rabbi with a formidable amount of kiruv experience. Whether you or I agree with his point(s) does not bring it beyond the realm of discussion.

If you read this comment thread, you will see that there are those that agree with R Cardozo’s point(s) and those that don’t.
Shoshie
April 5th, 2006 @ 11:03 pm

David,

“Whether you or I agree with his point(s) does not bring it beyond the realm of discussion.”

I don’t have an issue with his point, I have an issue with how he presented it. I’d have no problem if he’d have written something to the effect of
“It is always important when reaching out to Jews who are not yet religious to be sensitive of their feelings and not even give them a hint of a feeling that you feeel superior to them etc. It is important to make them feel appreciated for the many Mitzvos they currently perform and to try and build on that.”
Do that and you wouldn’t hear a word from me. What I resent is his insistence that it’s a widespread problem which is slanderous and uncalled for. He could have made the point without accusing everyone [or MANY] of being guilty of the sin.

What I wrote about my difficulties with the site is a different issue. I am always amazed at how quick everyone is to point fingers and find flaws in the frum community. This is not so much a reflection of you and Mark, but a reflection of the attitude of many commenters.
There are long threads disscussing the horrors of frum schools, the impossiblities of leading an ideal Frum life, the sexist nature of the frum community, the dishonesty of the kiruv movement, the apathy toward kiruv in the frum community and on and on and on.

I’d hate to call myself an apologist for the frum community because I see many flaws in it myself due to my situation and job. However, I see no constructive purpose in constantly rehashing it. Nor do I believe it’s healthy. I joined the frum world for the good it offers and see no reason to allow myself to get dragged down in the negative aspects of it. If there were no negative aspects Moshiach would have been here by now, so I don’t let it surprise me when I discover them.

Most importantly, I think it very often crosses the line into slanderous. When a commenter above writes, “I’ve experienced plenty of Orthodox triumpalism and it is not just between non-Orthodox and Orthodox. It is great that some of you haven’t. I figured that it was the norm.” that’s Lashon Harrah and I don’t know why it’s tolerated. The most extreme voices until that point maintained that it CAN be a problem sometimes. Yet this person claims that it’s the norm and she’s shocked to hear otherwise and it basically goes unchallenged?

If you don’t think there’s something wrong with that, I’m not sure there’s much more I can say.

Mark,
“I think Rabbi Cordozo makes the very valid point that we need to judge people more favorably and find the good that they are already doing. The fact that he negatively judges Kiruv professionals in the same article, shows how difficult this is.”

Another way to say it is that it shows how wrong he might be. Kiruv professinals are not saints but they’re doing a whole lot more than blogging about the ills of society. They’re literally working themselves to the bone trying to be Mekarev people while trying to raise enough money to feed their families and I don’t believe anyone has the right to decide that they’re all inwardly arrogant and therefore unsuccessful.
David Linn
April 5th, 2006 @ 11:21 pm

Shoshie:

Although I didn’t read the post the way you did, I guess I can agree with your point:It’s not what you say but how you say it.”
Mark Frankel
April 5th, 2006 @ 11:45 pm

Shoshie

If we followed your line of reasoning, we would close the site tomorrow.

But thank G-d we have Rabbinic advisors to whom we’ve asked these questions, and they think there is a big toeles in having these types of discussion and that we need not delete every comment that has a possibility of being Loshon Hara against the Jewish People without any toeles.

We also have many emails and comments from people who have said that this site has helped them tremendously in realizing there are problems in the community and they finally have a place where they have support and can talk about the problems and discuss potential solutions.

And of course this is not by any means, the only thrust of the site. I read all the posts, and the community problems discussions are a small minority of what we discuss here.

As far as Kiruv professionals, I love them dearly and I give significant amounts of my time for free to support what they do in many ways as well as being a Partner in Torah myself. The ones I’ve talked to are open to hear insights that can possibly improve what they are doing, which is why many of them read this site regularly.

With regard to Rabbi Cordozo, I think he is making an important point about being judgemental and it being an important factor in keeping people away from Yiddishkeit. As I mentioned previously, Aish also stressed that as an issue as do Partners in Torah and other Kiruv organizations. Of course few people try to be judgemental on purpose and Rabbi Cordozo was revealing some new angles on judgementalism. I don’t agree with every thing he said in the article, but I agree with it’s main thrust of finding the real good that exists in others as a good antidote.
Menachem Lipkin
April 6th, 2006 @ 5:04 am

There was a 3 part series on Ynet about this subject. It’s an interesting read and it validates the approach that Rabbi Cardozo has written about.

Maybe some of the antagonism here has to do with a cultural difference in dealing with Israeli vs. American secular Jews?

The links to the series are below:

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3183509,00.html
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3184027,00.html
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3185139,00.html
Jacob Haller
April 6th, 2006 @ 9:23 am

To Shoshie,

The Chazon Ish was once asked why some Ba’alei T’shuva in their journey to the Torah lifestyle meet the right people at the right time and hear the right things while others have it more difficult. This Gadol HaDor replied that “regarding the former, someone must have davened for them”.

IMO, this anecdote indicates that a Gadol HaDOROS no less then the Chazon Ish, acknowledged that not all Ba’alei T’shuva will necessarily have a smooth ride and always experience people who may be closer to Malachim (angels) then B’nei Adam (humans). As you expressed it (#13)

“I don’t recall my rav or rebbetzin ever making me feel bad about my past. I was overwhelmed by their devotion to me and the others who overtook their lives and while I didn’t always agree with them, I found their sincerity and devotion so compelling”

It’s terrific that you had the blessing of this experience, but it’s not mutually exclusive of the important and in IMO completely sincere message of Rabbi Cardozo that some spot checking on one’s midos could make literally a world of difference for a prospective Ba’al T’shuva.

So regarding your comment (#5)

“Sometimes I wonder whether the writer and some of the commenters have ever met the same people I met and currently live with throughout my journey to Judaism?”

Evidently the Chazon Ish acknowledges that not everyone has the zhcus (merit) to meet the same types you did in their respective journeys to Judaism.

Furthermore, a typical (for lack of a better word) non-Orthodox Jewish individual is more likely to be in contact with typical (ditto) frum Yiden in the marketplace than in a scenario with trained, idealistic and sensitive Kiruv professionals.

Therefore, a positive interaction with the typical frum Yid could also be a catalyst to possibly seeking out Kiruv pros. Need we state the obvious if the interaction is less than positive? Rabbi Cardozo was striving to create this awareness in his essay.

So you feel that it doesn’t apply to your personal experience or to those who served as your guides? Fine. Does it therefore warrant squelching the message for the masses?

Not that my 2 cents are necessary in this regard, but Rabbi Cardozo’s credentials and experience are top notch and his insights into matters both spiritually and worldly have been proven repeatedly.

If you think the rav was mistaken here, one reply could be that just like (l’havdil) the NY Yankees; one can’t be a world champion ALL the time (and this is coming from a NY Mets fan).
Michael
April 6th, 2006 @ 9:35 am

What Rabbi Cordoza writes is absurd.

If a person forged by the yoke of Torah, mitzvot and kedusha does not become a superior human being than his free-spirited neighbor, then God has played a huge practical joke on His people.
Mark Frankel
April 6th, 2006 @ 9:50 am

Michael, clearly Torah and mitzvos are the path to making yourself a better human being and that is the point that Rabbi Cordozo was making. Many non-Observant Jews do have aspects of Torah in their life (although they might not actively learn it),do perform mitzvot, and do believe in G-d and do care about becoming better human beings.

He is telling us that to encourage others to pursue Torah and mitzvos to a greater degree, we should start by recognizing and encouraging them in the Mitvos they are already doing.
Ruby
April 6th, 2006 @ 10:10 am

Mark, Rabbi Cardoza’s approach to reach out to the non-observant by recognizing – for ourselves, and for them – their tzelem elokim and the mitzvos and midos that they already embrace as a starting point is an intriguing one and worthy of discussion. Practical examples of how to start and then follow up, etc… But he lost my buy in to that thought by mixing it with the suggestion that arrogance of the observant is a major cause for the non-observant not coming back.
Steve Brizel
April 6th, 2006 @ 10:15 am

Many Baaeli Mussar and Chasidus ( R Yisrael Salanter and the Kotzker Rebbe Ziconam Livracha, in particular) stress that it is far easier to become ritually observant and to learn “Gantz Shas” than to perfect one’s midos and to internalize what what has learned, as opposed to just learning without any integration and changes upon one’s personality.
Mark Frankel
April 6th, 2006 @ 10:36 am

Ruby

It seems that starting an article by clearly calling some of your intended audience arrogant, might not make into “How to Win Friends and Influence People”. But many a Mussar Oriented Drasha do point out our shortcomings in a call for us to improve.

I’m going with mainstream Torah thought here in assuming that none of us has overcome completely the negative trait of Gaiva (arrogance).

Rabbi Cordozo was pointing out a way that arrogance is manifest. He wasn’t calling anybody Baalei Gaiva, although perhaps that’s how you read it, just that a manifestation of arrogance is treating secular Jews as inferior in some sense.
Jacob Haller
April 6th, 2006 @ 12:08 pm

Michael,

If your use of the term “free-spirited” was meant pejoratively, then IMO generalizing every not-yet-observant individual as a free spirit is demonstratively unfair.

Many Ba’alei T’shuva in their previous lifestyle were yearning for a meaningful system to live by and were pained by the absence of one prior to discovering the Torah.

Undoubtedly there are those still out there who fit the above criteria and have yet to discover Toras Chaim.

To lump them all together with the likes of people who have no care in the world; besides being unfair is a luxury we just don’t have. We have only the responsibility to show them they’re welcome to learn more and one way to accomplish this is to avoid ways to make them feel like inherently inferior beings.
YM
April 6th, 2006 @ 4:54 pm

Yesterday, one of my wifes friends, who became frum at the same time my future wife did, told her that she is no longer orthodox and has begun violating shabbes. According to her friend, she is tired of her life revolving around shul and shabbes and wants to do normal things. I said to my wife that this type of situation is more likely to occur when someone decides to become frum because they think it is going to enhance their life, make them happier, etc. If you become frum because you believe that Hashem gave the Torah and that it is Hashem’s will that we follow the halacha, and you also believe that the process of oral law and halacha from Moshe Rabbenu until today is valid and not broken, then this type of decision is much less likely to occur.

My point? Is kiruv about offering people life enhancement strategies and tasty meals and nice clothes, or is it about serving Hashem because we believe that our redemption is being delayed becuase of aveyrahs that non-observant (and observant) jews commit? Is the choice between being observant or non-observant two equally valid choices, or is it more like a drug counseler and a drug addict, where no one would argue that the behavior of the drug addict is valid or acceptable? Or is it somewhere in the middle? I really don’t know what the proper attitude is.
Shoshie
April 7th, 2006 @ 11:22 am

Mark,

At the risk of prolonging a conversation that’s probably lasted too long already, I’ll respond in brief to a few of your points.

1. I never suggested that you close the site – all I did was point out a tendency on behalf of many commenters to hold the frum community to unreasonably exacting standards and how occassionaly their comments border on being slanderous. I don’t know what you’re rabbanim have advised on how to respond to those but I noticed that you never let a negative comment re: BeyondBT pass without a rejoinder and I though your Ahavas Yisrael would demand that you do the same when others are unfairly maligned.

2. I have no doubt many people are relieved to hear that yes, there are problems in the frum community, and somehow it helps them cope further. I’d love to know how, but I trust that it’s very therapuetic.

3. I’m have never questioned the willingness of Kiruv pros to accept criticism. I questioned the wisdom of dishing it out when they’re not guilty of the crime.

4. To say that Rabbi Cardozo’s article wouldn’t make it into “How To Win Friends etc.” is precisely the point. His article was on How To Win Jews and in trying to make his point he was guilty of the very crime he warns against. That was my point and it seems that even you agree.

5. As far as Kiruv pros reading the site, I know some who do so avidly and others who pointedly don’t, because of the frequent negativity.
For the record, I fowarded a copy of this article to four acqauintences of mine who are in the field of kiruv. Of the three who responded, two were overwhelmingly disturbed by the TONE of the argument and the third felt it might have been an important point but it was poorly presented.

Have a wonderful Shabbos!
Mark Frankel
April 7th, 2006 @ 1:24 pm

Shoshie

To your point of the tone of Rabbi Cordozo’s article, it is clear that many found it offensive. I believe it was due in part to his upfront usage of the term arrogant, instead of something more sugar coated, like gaiva-dich.

But I like Rabbi Cordozo’s out-of-the-box thinking, so I chose to get past the tone and hear his message. Clearly your mileage did vary.
Bob Miller
April 7th, 2006 @ 1:45 pm

About this article and many others by many others:
Writers shouldn’t feel that they have to turn their fresh insights into the Unified Field Theory.
Often, “short and sweet” gets the idea across better and avoids the pitfalls of over-generalization and over-reaching.
Belle
April 7th, 2006 @ 2:16 pm

I disagree with Rabbi Cardozo’s main thesis: that emphasizing how “Jewish” secular Jews really are is a more effective kiruv approach than showing them that they lack Torah. It is true that the Torah’s ethical values have seeped into many corners of Jewish life: Jews are often charitable, honest, seeking to change the world for the better, etc. However, most very secular Jews would NOT attribute their honesty, for example, to Judaism but to something amorphous called “basic morality.” They would say things like “I am honest because it is the right thing to do, not because some Torah or rabbi tells me to.” I believe they would find it somewhat offensive to be told that it is because they are Jewish that they are honest — they’ll answer back with examples of honest non-Jews, etc.

I also respectfully disagree that secular Jews often exceed the accomplishments of the frum Jew in the man-to-man mitzvos. It’s a nice thesis, but the reality doesn’t bear it out. Has anyone ever heard of a gemach for anything in the Conservative, Reform or non-affiliated community? Has anyone but the frum created a Hatzola or Bikur Cholim? Jews do participate at soup kitchens and do spontaneous acts of chessed, but rarely does one find the extended and dedicated chessed that is tiring, demanding and sometimes painful outside of frum circles.

It is true that many, if not most, Jews have a good heart, and do care, but without a structure to harness their good impulses, they are wasted. The structure is the mitzvos. When non-affiliated Jews see things like Tomchei Shabbos and the above mentioned chassadim they are very impressed and moved. It is precisely showing them that Torah is what they are missing that moves them.

Rabbi Cardoza’s point that frum Jews need to respect the non-frum is obvious to any BT. That many if not most FFBs are “arrogant” in thinking that they are superior is questionable. Some think this way, and they are the same one who call Blacks and other non-Jews with slurs. Many others have internalized ahavas yisroel and still others have an underlying envy for the frei Yid. Granted, he is correct in saying that being judgmental will turn away a non-frum yid, but actually it takes a degree of awareness not to judge someone who is doing blatent aveiras. It takes some level of education for people to understand deeply the ramifications of being a tinok she nishba, that non-frum Jews feel empty inside, etc.

This is where BT educating the FFB is very valuable, and I think the recent movie put out by Aish HaTorah, Inspired, was very successful in this way. I heard that it was an enormous success in the FFB world, which wouldn’t be the case if the FFB community was arrogant. They simply don’t relate and need to be educated.
Mark Frankel
April 7th, 2006 @ 2:59 pm

There are many different forms and nuances of arrogance (see Mesillas Yesharim and other classical Mussar texts).

Although it may be arrogant to say it, “It is arrogant for any person to think that he/she has overcome to any significant degree the trait of arrogance”.

Thinking that the frum communities chesed is superior to that of the non-frum community is a subtle from of such arrogance, even though it may be true in the eyes of Hashem.

Try telling a secular person that the Frum communities chesed is superior to the non-Frum communities chesed and see if they don’t find the statement arrogant.

They will cite the billions and billions of dollars and man-hours devoted to chesed in the non-frum community, which you will then have to poo-poo away. Then they might point out the tepid response to natural disasters by the frum community compared to the non-frum community, which you will also have to explain away.

I can go on and on, but hopefully you can see why the claim or belief of superiority is perceived as arrogant, even if it might be true. That was part of Rabbi Cordozo’s point.

I don’t know the *best* way to do Kiruv, as all programs to date have had limited success in terms of making a dent in the total picture. I do believe we would all benefit from hearing what Rabbi Cordozo is saying although I would certainly not make the claim that it will be the ultimate kiruv solution.
Bob Miller
April 7th, 2006 @ 3:12 pm

In 1973 or 1974, I attended a Bnai Brith meeting in Muskegon, MI, complete with kosher deli flown in from Chicago. The members got into a discussion of all the chesed-type things Bnai Brith brothers around the world did for one another (home hospitality, etc.). I later realized that all these were among the things Jews in general are expected to do for one another. Jews have an inward desire to do the right thing, and we try to act on it to the extent that we discover the details.
Ruby
April 7th, 2006 @ 3:14 pm

“Try telling a secular person that the Frum communities chesed is superior to the non-Frum communities chesed and see if they don’t find the statement arrogant.”

Rabbi Cardoza was telling Frum people that the secular communities chesed is superior to the Frum communities chesed. Don’t be surprised if we find the statement arrogant.
Mark Frankel
April 7th, 2006 @ 3:47 pm

I’m not sure that he said secular chesed was superior. Even if he did, it would not diminish from the thrust of his contention that people do not like to be made to feel inferior.

This is no easy task. We know that the Torah way of life is superior, yet we have to internalize the fact that that does not make us superior to another Jew.

Rebbetzin Heller points out that comparisons to other people are almost always wrong. We each have our unique character, environment and mission, and it is our performance against that backdrop that is judged by Hashem.
Menachem Lipkin
April 8th, 2006 @ 1:55 pm

Shoshie,

I received some numbers from a friend at NJOP. The number of BT’s is somewhere between what you and I said. There are currently about 4,000 BT a year. (I assume this is in the US.) Up until 1990 the rate was about 2,000 a year. The estimate is that in the last 60 years there have been about 120,000 BTs.

I have some other numbers which people here might find interesting.

In 1990 there were about 6,000,000 Jews in America. Of those 2mm were totally unafiliated, 2mm moderately affiliated and 2mm highly affiliated.

Today, there are 5,200,000 Jews in America. (That alone is stagering.) Of those, 2.2mm are completely unaffiliated, 1.5 mm are moderately affiliated and 1.5mm are highly affiliated.

Of the “highly” affiliated Jews, 815,000 attend synagogue once a month or more and 415,000 are orthodox.

These numbers really put things in perspective. Since 1990 there have been about 60,000 BTs, but we’ve totally lost 800,000 Jews!
YM
April 8th, 2006 @ 10:30 pm

Menachem, what is your point? For every 10 heroin addicts that try to quit, probably less than one succeeds in quitting, and 9 go back to using until eventually they die. And the “frei” addiction is something that most are born with.

In his beautiful book, Wellsprings of Faith, Rabbi Moshe Wolfson talks about our generation, saying
“…Never in history has there been a generation so lacking in feeling and sensitivity for Godliness. Never has there been a generation so numb to its own injuries, so unconcerned about the damage that is being done to it. In our own time, millions of souls have been torn away from the Jewish people, and yet the pain of that loss is hardly felt — for it is a generation of insensitivity. And yet, precisely because the souls of our generation are so poorly endowed, our own meager spiritual accomplishments are of tremendous significance to God…In a time of darkness, even the smallest light is precious. In a generation of numb and calloused souls, even the simple faith of an ordinary Jew is a cause for immeasurable delight in Heaven.”
SephardiLady
April 8th, 2006 @ 10:59 pm

Menachem-Those stats are really frightening. Certainly something to think about during our Sedarim.
Steve Brizel
April 8th, 2006 @ 11:29 pm

I think that pointing to chesed, which is something that all Jews do in different formats ranging from a not yet religious Jew giving a substantial donation to a yeshiva to hands on chesed, is not an appropriate means of kiruv. Showing someone the beauty of a Shabbos table or contrasting a yeshiva with a library of a college has a much more positive and powerful message.
Menachem Lipkin
April 9th, 2006 @ 12:39 am

Ym,

That’s a beautiful and just underlines my point. Which is that, as successful as our kiruv efforts have been, they are just a teeny “precious light”. Rabbi Cardozo is offering us an insight on how to maybe brighten that light just a little.
SephardiLady
April 9th, 2006 @ 12:46 am

Being that Rabbi Cardozo is himself a master of teshuvah, as well as a kind and brillant man, I think we should definitely consider his position.
David Bland
March 19th, 2010 @ 1:03 pm

Speaking as a completely secular Jew (and, in fact, as an athiest) I really appreciate this article and wish that some of my fellow atheists would view believers with similar respect and compassion.
Reuven Andreessen
March 20th, 2010 @ 9:48 pm

I disagree with the article saying that secular Jews are equal to frum Jews.It is not legitimate to be a secular Jew.If a Jew is secular, he is not a Jew in good standing.Of course any mitzvah any Jew performs, frum or secular, receives its reward.I understand that as a “tactic” that banging a secular Jew over the head with the fact that he is not keeping his obligations as a Jew may be counter-productive.But the truth remains- All Jews, raised Orthodox or not, have an obligation to keep the mitzvot.If a Jew is violating a prohibition of the Torah, he is required to do teshuvah.Secular Jews by definition need to do teshuvah (change their ways). There is a balance to be maintained between being welcoming to Jews who are not integrated into the community and at the same time being truthful about what is not optional but required of any Jew (the requirement of all Jews to keep the mitzvot).Yes, be welcoming to secular Jews,but don’t legitimize a secular Jewish lifestyle which is treif.
David_L
August 7th, 2012 @ 7:42 pm

The article makes some good points, e.g., humility vs. arrogance.

For me, its reposting is timely, since understanding how I should interact with non-observant Jews is a problem with which I’ve been struggling.
Judy Resnick
August 8th, 2012 @ 2:25 pm

Humor, handled properly and in the correct time and place, can be helpful.

Inexpensive but meaningful gifts, such as a cheap Seder plate or a halachically correct candle menorah (accompanied by a box of 45 Chanukah candles), can mean a lot to a secular Jewish co-worker or acquaintance.

Lending a book to another can sometimes be much appreciated, as it is difficult for most working adults to get to the library and hardcover books have soared in price. Write your name inside the cover to help ensure getting it back.

In general, being a decent individual with consideration, of which there are so few nowadays, is usually the best advertisement for frumkeit that anyone can do.

Beyond BT

Baalei Teshuvah and Other Growth Oriented Jews

The Permanent Preciousness of the “Secular” Jew

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