16 Responses to “Clash of Cultures – A Torah Observant Wedding and Father’s Day”

1. tesyaa
   June 6th, 2012 @ 9:59 am

   Probably (b) and (c) more than (a). Most secular people do not spend an entire day celebrating Father’s Day, and are willing to attend other events on Father’s Day.

   Perhaps if you sent a personal note or email telling your secular friends how valued their presence would be despite religious differences, they would feel welcome.

   I don’t know if your invitation included a note about wearing modest dress, but that might turn off some secular couples. I don’t know how I’d suggest dealing with that situation, if you really want them to celebrate with you.

   If your circle of secular friends is really small, you probably don’t have a large enough statistical sample to draw conclusions.

   Even those who have sent regrets might enjoy a personal note from you about how you value their friendship, after the fact, of course.

2. Scott
   June 6th, 2012 @ 10:20 am

   I vote for c, with a and b being just excuses.
   Really try to get them to come…be super-inviting and warm, and greet them when you can and go to their table when you can…obviously not so easy for the father of the kallah, but they may not really not understand that.

   Mazel Tov and loads of nachas!

3. Mark Frankel
   June 6th, 2012 @ 11:09 am

   One friend who came to my first daughter’s wedding, said he couldn’t come to this one because of Father’s day. Many secular people try to come for the start (6:30 pm) and don’t realize that observant families making the wedding appreciate any amount of time that people spend at the wedding.

   We didn’t include a modesty clause, but we’re having totally separate seating and we did inform them of that in separate emails so they and their wives (if they came) wouldn’t be surprised.

   At my first daughter’s wedding I spent some time with every one of them. A few them insisted on dancing in the middle of the separate father’s circle.

   When the responses started coming in, I felt a little sad, but when I tried to imagine the situation from their point of view it was quite understandable.

4. justme
   June 6th, 2012 @ 12:42 pm

   (b) is not a problem in my experience. Most secular people are curious and/or amused, unless they were formerly observant and had negative experiences with that.

5. Bob MIller
   June 6th, 2012 @ 12:47 pm

   I’ve seen nicely done Orthodox wedding handouts that describe all the steps of the process, ceremony, etc., per halacha. Maybe the invitation packets sent to the uninformed could include such handouts, so they’d know what to expect. They might become curious or relieved enough to want to come.

6. Ron Coleman
   June 6th, 2012 @ 5:36 pm

   I once was asked to give a presentation of a recent case I’d been involved in at a bar association committee meeting. I was very honored and excited. Imagine my surprise when only about six people came! Why the low turnout? It could be they were being kind to me, but this was unlikely; it was, after all, a regularly-scheduled committee meeting.

   The surprising answer: It was after work on Valentine’s Day, and, of course, people had to go to dinner with their spouses.

   Either they actually were being kind to me, or I am really, really out of touch with the secular world in this respect.

7. David Linn
   June 7th, 2012 @ 1:21 am

   If someone doesn’t live in close proximity to their father, Father’s Day can be an important (and full) day. Even though my Mother doesn’t make a big deal of Mother’s day, she does visit one of my brothers in Jersey. My mother lives in New York and with traffic, even a four hour visit can mean a seven hour day. Certainly, this isn’t the situation with everyone but it certainly happens. I wouldn’t be surprised if some who feel uncomfortable attending the wedding would use Father’s Day as a polite excuse, though. (I, for one, will be there so please don’t forget to buy me a card)

8. David
   June 7th, 2012 @ 1:17 pm

   I got married on December 24 and it caused a problem that my intermarried relatives wouldn’t come. This was even those with spouses that had supposedly “converted.”

9. Martin Fleischer
   June 7th, 2012 @ 11:36 pm

   IMO, it should not make one bit of difference if the wedding is on Dad’s day. A wedding is a never-to-be-missed event, and a non-frum family should be able to understand that. Besides, you can call Dad, or email, or Skype, and you can arrange to see him the next day or week!

   BTW Mark, Mazal Tov!!!!!!

10. Steve Brizel
    June 8th, 2012 @ 2:58 pm

    Mother’s Day, Father’s Day and Thansgiving-Xmas are all significant days in the secular world . You cannot imagine the inner turmoil and angst that many Non Jews and secular Jews have about being in the same room with their relatives one day a year-which is something that happens weekly on Shabbos, and on Yamim Tovim as well.

11. Mr. Cohen
    June 10th, 2012 @ 9:49 pm

    Steve Brizel said (message #10):

    “You cannot imagine the inner turmoil and angst that many Non Jews and secular Jews have about being in the same room with their relatives one day a year…”

    I would like to hear more about that, please.

12. Mirel Tzirel
    June 11th, 2012 @ 1:02 pm

    The OP comments that Father’s Day isn’t much of a holiday in the Torah observant world…I actually think that’s a shame. Father’s Day is actually 1 day that observant and non-observant can actually celebrate together and enjoy each other’s company w/out religious tension (altho of course food, etc. needs to be worked out). Appreciation of one’s father shld cut across religious lines. While we may think there’s more to Kibud Av (V’Am) than a 1 day recognition, can’t we also take part in FD (& MD) as well? In fact I wld also think that option C wld be the truest reason for secular friends decline yr wedding invite…and by celebrating such holidays as Father’s Day, we (observant Jews) can attempt to maintain a connection w/secular friends & family. (And I don’t mean to be suggesting that the wedding shldn’t be held on FD, esp in the evening!)

13. ChanaLeah
    June 11th, 2012 @ 10:17 pm

    Secular parents and children set aside these days each year in order for the children to honor the parents. It takes on a somewhat sacred tone as there is otherwise no mitzva for daily kibud.

14. Scott
    June 12th, 2012 @ 12:47 pm

    Aside from those ‘special’ days, there’s really a mitzvah of kibud ben v’bas today, as children demand respect from their parents who rarely have control over them. Mashiach is coming.

15. Steve Brizel
    June 12th, 2012 @ 9:21 pm

    Mr. Cohen -read the NYT or any other newspaper anytime between Thanksgiving and Xmas-there are always articles by someone obsessing and worrying about being in the same room with family relatives for an annual dinner.It deos remind me of a famous Talmudic passage about how the Nations of the World rejected a mitzvah kallah , namely Sukkah,

16. Always a BT
    January 7th, 2013 @ 1:48 pm

    Mark, I just saw this; Mazal Tov on your daughter’s chasunah!! I hope all went well.

    When our daughter got married we put together a very carefully worded description of what to expect at an Orthodox wedding (including a timeline) & inserted it in the invitations of those unfamiliar (& as requested by my not-frum machatanim). We also had some available on a table at the chuppah.

    There was a substantial number of non-frum (& some non-Jewish) people at the wedding & we wanted to make sure they had an idea of what to expect. My daughter requested we put something on the invite about modesty; that too was very carefully worded & left to individual discretion. All seating was separate & was accepted without comment (at least to me!).

    The description/timeline was very well received. The comment I received most often from the “unfamiliar” (some intermarried) is that they had never seen such pure joy at a wedding & felt the warmth & love present throughout. We are also blessed to have WONDERFUL friends who went out of their way to be gracious & make the “unfamiliar” feel comfortable. It far exceeded our expectations!

    If anyone would like a copy, I’d be happy to e-mail it to you. You can contact me through the Administrator.

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