11 Responses to “Advice for the Seder Guest”

1. David Linn
   March 17th, 2010 @ 8:16 am

   We used to go out for one seder and we would always bring our own shmurah matza. That was not because we were concerned about the size of the shiurim. It was because it is quite an expense for a host to provide shmura matza for each guest. This would also address your concern with shiurim, at least as far as matza is concerned. Be sure to let your hosts know in advance so they can plan accordingly.

2. Eric
   March 17th, 2010 @ 9:28 am

   This year, one potential guest did ask us about how our Seder is conducted. Since she is close to our family she felt comfortable asking and we were not offended. In the past as a single person though, I myself probably wouldn’t have asked because of not wanting to offend anyone and for lack of many choices of places to go.

3. tesyaa
   March 17th, 2010 @ 9:38 am

   1) Since a seder is not just a quick bite to eat with friends, and you can’t just leave early if you’re not having a good time, I think it’s OK to probe about the type of seder to expect. If you decline based on the response, make sure to blame your own personal quirks rather than criticize the seder style of the inviter. (e.g.: “Even on the Seder night, I need a good night’s sleep” or “You can’t teach an old dog new tricks”).

   2) Feel free to offer a short dvar Torah without being asked. You’ll know from the reaction you get whether you should offer more and/or longer divrei Torah as the seder progresses.

   3) If you have kashrus doubts, it may be better to decline outright instead of probing. If someone were to ask me for a blow-by-blow description of my lettuce washing technique, I’d be tempted to show him or her the door.

   4) I don’t see why you can’t ask for more matza for a shiur, but be prepared for questions about why you hold by a particular shiur. Also, it is helpful to know what a shiur actually is. If you have never asked your rabbi and you tend to go the maximalist route, you might be pleasantly surprised by asking a sh’ayla. Better to ask a rabbi than a friend who is not a posek.

4. Isaac
   March 17th, 2010 @ 10:20 am

   1) If lots of divrei Torah from kids will cause a serious defect in your Seder experience, and if you have a choice of sedarim to attend, then it could be worthwhile to ask, tactfully. If it would be an annoyance rather than a serious problem, though, I’d advise you to just go with the flow.

   2) It should be pretty easy to gauge the atmosphere at the table. If people are interjecting, go for it. If it seems that no one speaks unless the leader addresses them (uncommon, in my experience), hang back. No matter what, keep your offerings short, sweet, and preferably in the service of telling the story of the Exodus.

   3) People of all Jewish stripes tend to be more paranoid about kashrut on Pesach, and people also tend to expect and understand such paranoia in others. If you keep a particular non-universal stringency, most people would not be offended if you ask ahead of time whether they keep it or could accommodate it. If it’s something like you’re not sure if the potential hosts cleaned their kitchen to your standards, you’d best ask your Rabbi how much you have to worry about that.

   4) I like the suggestion above about contributing a box of matza. At the Seder, it’s a matter of applying basic tact. “Could I please have a little more?” is probably good enough in most situations. If your practice is to require an unusually large amount, it may be worth mentioning it ahead of time. Also, keep in mind that there is a wide range of legitimate opinions about what the correct amounts are, so if you get a smaller amount than you’d usually have, it could be OK bedi’avad (given the circumstances). If you think this might be an issue, consider asking your Rabbi ahead of time what the minimum minimum amounts are.

5. Mark Frankel
   March 17th, 2010 @ 10:25 am

   The seder involves
   1) Focusing on your children as that is an essential part of the mitzvah
   2) Your own spiritual needs on this high growth potential night
   3) The physical and spiritual needs of the guests.

   Like many aspects of Torah and life there is a tension which first needs to be recognized to be dealt with in an optimal manner.

6. ross
   March 17th, 2010 @ 10:27 am

   On Shabbos, the host is usually more accomodating than the guest. Pesach is the opposite. The seder is primarily for the kids, and the guest should be in the mindset (if he agrees to go based on any questions he asked) of not expecting to be the center of attention, and whatever happens will happen.

   I agree that a guest should offer to bring his own matzahs due to the expense, although chances are the host will refuse.

   They might be a lot of kids saying over what they learned in school, and perhaps the meal will be short in order to make chatzos. The guest should take cues from the host, and not be offended if none are offered.

   As far as the shirim, he might have the opposite problem: perhaps the host does everything in the Chazon Ish shiur, and with the kids closely watching (they always watch the guest), expect everyone to follow suit.

   Ask questions all you want during the seder, but please don’t be offended at anything that happens. Just watch, learn, and appreciate that on this holiday, it’s the children who are placed in the spotlight and given most of the attention.

7. Zachary Kessin
   March 17th, 2010 @ 10:37 am

   Our custom (which is about 3-4 years old now) is to not offer any dviri Torah until the food comes out. This way you can get to dinner at a decent hour and can talk about things at length over dinner without kids (and parents) going “SO when do we eat”

   We tend to tell people this when we invite them so they know what to expect.

8. tesyaa
   March 17th, 2010 @ 1:34 pm

   One other thought about the shiurim: if you are going to need a large shiur, and you are not going to interrupt your chewing until you’re all done, let your host know in advance. A guest who is gesturing wildly for more matza while refusing to talk might be a little disconcerting.

9. Mr. Cohen
   March 17th, 2010 @ 6:55 pm

   I ask my potential hosts this question:
   What time do you normally finish Passover Seder?
   If the answer is too late for me, then I do not visit those hosts for Passover Seder.

   Last year I became an instant hero with the children of my hosts by bringing sealed packages of kosher-for-Passover marshmallows. They did not cost a lot, but they meant a lot to the children. Before you give the children marshmallows, or any other food, be sure to get the pre-approval of the parents, before you open the sealed container. Desert foods like marshmallows should only be given to the children AFTER they eat their meal, to avoid spoiling their appetite for real food.

   I prepare for Passover Seder (and also the daytime meals) by preparing typed Divrei Torah in advance, but I do not say my Divrei Torah until AFTER we start eating substantial food, and even then, I must be careful to keep them short, simple and sweet.

   Experience shows that the more people there are present at a meal, the less Divrei Torah I am able to recite, especially if there are many children present. In a large crowd, my hosts can not give me much attention, and noise makes it difficult for people to hear what I say.

   If you drink grape juice instead of wine, then I suggest bringing your own, because your hosts may not remember this detail, and you save them some money. Also, you get credited with a good deed if you help to supply kosher grape juice to other guests.

   I suggest bringing your own matzah, if you are able to. One year at Seder, the ONLY unbroken matzahs were the ones I brought, and those are required for every Passover Seder. The matzahs my host bought were all smashed, despite the very high price he paid for them.

   IYH, I will soon distribute free Passover stories from my web site:

   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DerechEmet/

10. Bob Miller
    March 18th, 2010 @ 11:21 am

    Mr. Cohen’s comment about expensive yet smashed matzos is important to consider if we buy handmade shmurah matzo. Things to consider include:

    1. Past history of brand as regards breakage. Some brands are thinner and more apt to break if shipped long distances. Some brands appear to have less quality control at the time of packing.

    2. Inspection well before the seder. If you delay too long, you might find that some or all boxes contain a large percentage of broken matzos. You need to make sure you have enough unbroken matzos for seder needs.

    3. It’s good to obtain some machine-made shmura matzos as a hedge against the breakage of the handmade matzos. So far, I’ve never seen a machine shmura brand arrive with broken matzos.

11. Judy Resnick
    March 18th, 2010 @ 2:43 pm

    The local Agudah sells hand shmurah matzos and actually charges a lower price for shevarim (broken) matzos rather than the (presumably) whole matzos. Hopefully the whole matzos will be whole and only the broken matzos will be broken. In fact, this year they added a special category for burnt matzos (I am not kidding) and my husband actually purchased two pounds of that (he likes burnt matzos, as they say different strokes for different folks).

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