11 Responses to “Making Sure the Slow Path Remains a Path”

1. Shades of Gray
   January 5th, 2010 @ 3:26 am

   “Reading this great advice from Friedman’s Get Deeper Into Torah Without Going Off The Deep End raises the question that perhaps at some point we’re no longer have our sight on a goal…”

   This point is clear in the essay quoted, but, interestingly, the esaay on the whole is emphasizing the opposite aspect, “go slow”.

   There is a similar need for balance regarding quoting other encouraging statements, for example R. Hutner’s letter(see first link below) regarding, “ Seven times does the righteous one fall and get up”, or “inside not like outside”(see second link).

   R. Shafran writes of the balance, in the context of R. Hutner’s letter, as follows:

   “The struggles – even the failures – are inherent elements of what can, with determination and perseverance, become an ultimate victory… Still, it’s a balancing act. The knowledge, after the fact, that falling isn’t forever cannot permit us to treat sin lightly. “

   http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2008/09/19/no-laughing-matter/

   Regarding “tocho k’barao’, R. Shafran writes:

   “And yet, the “insides like outsides” ideal clearly remains the ultimate goal, not only for scholars but for us all…The only excuse for not being there is that we’re trying to get there. “

   http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2009/05/01/the-art-of-growth/

2. tesyaa
   January 5th, 2010 @ 12:38 pm

   Of course, this is excellent advice. However, I think the reason many people don’t act in accordance with this advice is an understandable desire for ACCEPTANCE in the frum world. If I look this way, if I study more, if I am an expert in bugs, surely THEN I will fit in with the frum world, and I will be accepted.

   Unfortunately, in many communities BTs will NEVER be fully accepted into the FFB world, so whether they take it fast or slow, the push for acceptance is for nought.

   Why would BTs choose to live in right-wing communities that will never accept them, when there are other communities that will accept them unconditionally?

3. Mark Frankel
   January 5th, 2010 @ 12:47 pm

   Some BTs choose to live in right-wing communities because they like where the bar is set in terms of learning Torah and performance of mitzvos. When BTs in these communities reach/approach the bar, they are usually accepted.

   I would like to point out the obvious fact that right-wing communities are not monolithic.

   Just curious, when you say right wing, which of these communities do you include LWMO(Left Wing Modern), RWMO(Right Wing Modern), LWUO(Left Wing Ultra) , RWUO (Right Wing Ultra)?

4. tesyaa
   January 5th, 2010 @ 12:53 pm

   Mark, if they are usually accepted, why so many posts about angst for their children’s shidduchim, and for their children’s acceptance? Why do they fear being shunned if they admit they have non-frum relatives? Why the post/comment recently where someone was embarrassed that her father said kiddush slowly?

   (How can someone fear rejection over saying kiddush slowly? If I decided to move to Portugal today, my spoken Portuguese might also be slow and halting, even if, after a few years, I was totally in tune with Portuguese culture.)

5. Mark Frankel
   January 5th, 2010 @ 1:16 pm

   Tesyaa, good points. There are levels of acceptance, but if you reach the bar as I described above you’ll generally be accepted.

   I’ll will agree that it won’t be as easy or as complete as in more modern communities. You asked why people would chose lower levels of acceptance. And I think the answer I gave in terms of setting a higher bar for Torah and mitzvos still stands.

6. Bob Miller
   January 5th, 2010 @ 1:31 pm

   There can be a difference between “Orthodox Judaism” and “Social Mores of Orthodox People Where We Live”. The latter can sometimes violate the former, especially if the people feel frum enough not to consult with Rabbonim about important matters.

7. Neil Harris
   January 5th, 2010 @ 2:41 pm

   If I recall correctly, Friedman’s little booklet was written for either newly observant, who were either getting ready to go to Yeshiva/Seminary or those who recently started studying at a Yeshiva/Seminary. The advice he offers is geared towards that type of a person.

   Tesyaa, may I suggest you check out this older post of mine:
   http://www.beyondbt.com/2007/06/26/are-we-too-obsessed-with-integration/

   The comments might interest you.
   Regarding this post, I think it’s safe to bet that most Rabbis and people involved in Jewish outreach and education would agree that for most people, it’s not best to jump into the pool without learning how to swim. Some can jump and figure it out, but most need swimming lessons.

8. Judy Resnick
   January 5th, 2010 @ 4:01 pm

   Tesyaa, unfortunately I think part of the problem is that our Ahavas Yisroel is sorely lacking. Bullying and taunting are still part of what frum children have to face even in those yeshivos that brag about their “emphasis on good midos.” FFB kids fear that any imperfection in their parents, whether it’s saying Kiddush slowly or being fat, will be a source of their being shamed by other kids. Later on, those FFB kids grow up into FFB young adults who are so to speak competing with each other to get into the “best” seminaries and batei medrashim and to get redd for the “best” shidduchim. Sometimes even apartments in desirable areas won’t get rented out to people whose level of observance is “not like us.” There is a lot of pressure to conform to a community’s standards. This is not all bad: for example, some abusive spouses restrain themselves when considering what their neighbors will say about them.

9. David Linn
   January 6th, 2010 @ 9:13 am

   Shades of Gray:

   I think you make an excellent point when you say that the essay is adjuring people to “go slow”. Yet, the excerpt is making an important point about the tweaking of, the personalization of and the potential pitfalls of losing track of growth within the “go slow” approach.

   This is a good point, highlighted by the other examples that you gave, in general. Keeping your eyes on the prize and constantly re-evaluating your direction is critical.

10. Charlie Hall
    January 9th, 2010 @ 10:41 pm

    I would particularly endorse the “find a mentor”.

11. Rachel
    February 9th, 2010 @ 1:37 pm

    I am not baal teshuva, I am not FFB, nor am I Orthodox in my stripes, but I am newly Jewish and there are many things that I took from this post and the linked article that I can use for myself as I become more observant.

    So, I just wanted to say thank you.

    Rachel

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