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	<title>Comments on: Lifecycle Events &#8211; Tips on Making a Wedding, a Bar Mitzvah or a Bris</title>
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	<link>http://www.beyondbt.com/2009/11/30/lifecycle-events-tips-on-making-a-wedding-a-bar-mitzvah-or-a-bris/</link>
	<description>Baalei Teshuva / Baalei Teshuvah and Other Growth Oriented Jews</description>
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		<title>By: Zach Kessin</title>
		<link>http://www.beyondbt.com/2009/11/30/lifecycle-events-tips-on-making-a-wedding-a-bar-mitzvah-or-a-bris/comment-page-1/#comment-391011</link>
		<dc:creator>Zach Kessin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Dec 2009 15:58:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beyondbt.com/?p=1627#comment-391011</guid>
		<description>My 2 shekels, from having made a brit about 9 months ago.

Figure out what you can afford to pay in cash (IE NO DEBT) and stick to that number. We made our son&#039;s Brit in our living room and served bagels. Fancy no, but it cost us about 1500 NIS ($350) which is what we could afford to spend. 

Oh and everyone had a nice time.

 Don&#039;t be afraid to spend what you can afford and not more. Do you really want to still be paying for your simcah 5 years after later?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My 2 shekels, from having made a brit about 9 months ago.</p>
<p>Figure out what you can afford to pay in cash (IE NO DEBT) and stick to that number. We made our son&#8217;s Brit in our living room and served bagels. Fancy no, but it cost us about 1500 NIS ($350) which is what we could afford to spend. </p>
<p>Oh and everyone had a nice time.</p>
<p> Don&#8217;t be afraid to spend what you can afford and not more. Do you really want to still be paying for your simcah 5 years after later?</p>
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		<title>By: Baal Simcha</title>
		<link>http://www.beyondbt.com/2009/11/30/lifecycle-events-tips-on-making-a-wedding-a-bar-mitzvah-or-a-bris/comment-page-1/#comment-389697</link>
		<dc:creator>Baal Simcha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 12:55:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beyondbt.com/?p=1627#comment-389697</guid>
		<description>Three or Four!  Ouch,  I thought planning a &quot;regular&quot; batmitzvah was bad enough
I&#039;m glad your kids aren&#039;t embarrassed tassyaa, I never asked mine but I know they are.  I am, when relatives are told repeatedly how to dress &amp; they still arrive inappropriately clad.  What to do?  We&#039;ve even printed &quot;Ladies are requested to come dressed according to Jewish Law&quot; on a batch of invites. These people have been made aware of &quot;law&quot; &amp; still don&#039;t care - I&#039;m talking very close relatives that can&#039;t not be invited.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Three or Four!  Ouch,  I thought planning a &#8220;regular&#8221; batmitzvah was bad enough<br />
I&#8217;m glad your kids aren&#8217;t embarrassed tassyaa, I never asked mine but I know they are.  I am, when relatives are told repeatedly how to dress &amp; they still arrive inappropriately clad.  What to do?  We&#8217;ve even printed &#8220;Ladies are requested to come dressed according to Jewish Law&#8221; on a batch of invites. These people have been made aware of &#8220;law&#8221; &amp; still don&#8217;t care &#8211; I&#8217;m talking very close relatives that can&#8217;t not be invited.</p>
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		<title>By: Judy Resnick</title>
		<link>http://www.beyondbt.com/2009/11/30/lifecycle-events-tips-on-making-a-wedding-a-bar-mitzvah-or-a-bris/comment-page-1/#comment-389558</link>
		<dc:creator>Judy Resnick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 01:43:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beyondbt.com/?p=1627#comment-389558</guid>
		<description>What if there are THREE zeidas? Or FOUR?

That could happen if the parents divorced and remarried other people, so that the Bar Mitzvah boy acquired the relatives of his stepmother and his stepfather.  Particularly if this happened at a young age, the step-grandfathers might feel as close to the boy as his two biological grandfathers.

Planning such a simcha to include all of the relatives, both by blood and by marriage, requires the tact of a diplomat and the brains of a physicist.

This reminds me of a chess problem where one side winds up with three knights.  Yes, it&#039;s possible to have three grandfathers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What if there are THREE zeidas? Or FOUR?</p>
<p>That could happen if the parents divorced and remarried other people, so that the Bar Mitzvah boy acquired the relatives of his stepmother and his stepfather.  Particularly if this happened at a young age, the step-grandfathers might feel as close to the boy as his two biological grandfathers.</p>
<p>Planning such a simcha to include all of the relatives, both by blood and by marriage, requires the tact of a diplomat and the brains of a physicist.</p>
<p>This reminds me of a chess problem where one side winds up with three knights.  Yes, it&#8217;s possible to have three grandfathers.</p>
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		<title>By: tesyaa</title>
		<link>http://www.beyondbt.com/2009/11/30/lifecycle-events-tips-on-making-a-wedding-a-bar-mitzvah-or-a-bris/comment-page-1/#comment-389408</link>
		<dc:creator>tesyaa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 18:39:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beyondbt.com/?p=1627#comment-389408</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;A kid of B.T.’s does not have 2 frum zeida’s on either side &amp; a bunch of uncles, cousins etc. Most likely he has a few non frum relatives he’s embarrassed of! Make him a Barmitzva like his friends have (don’t accommodate non frum relatives by making his barmitzvah different, it’s the boys special day not theirs).&lt;/i&gt;

Fewer older male relatives = fewer speeches, not necessarily a disadvantage for the boys and his friends!  (Disclaimer: since everyone on this site is so serious, I will just say that I KNOW words of Torah are special and important, but half a dozen long speeches do not necessarily add to a simcha).  And my kids are not embarrassed to have non-frum relatives; in most communities a lot of people have them hiding in their own closets. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>A kid of B.T.’s does not have 2 frum zeida’s on either side &amp; a bunch of uncles, cousins etc. Most likely he has a few non frum relatives he’s embarrassed of! Make him a Barmitzva like his friends have (don’t accommodate non frum relatives by making his barmitzvah different, it’s the boys special day not theirs).</i></p>
<p>Fewer older male relatives = fewer speeches, not necessarily a disadvantage for the boys and his friends!  (Disclaimer: since everyone on this site is so serious, I will just say that I KNOW words of Torah are special and important, but half a dozen long speeches do not necessarily add to a simcha).  And my kids are not embarrassed to have non-frum relatives; in most communities a lot of people have them hiding in their own closets. :)</p>
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		<title>By: Charnie</title>
		<link>http://www.beyondbt.com/2009/11/30/lifecycle-events-tips-on-making-a-wedding-a-bar-mitzvah-or-a-bris/comment-page-1/#comment-389288</link>
		<dc:creator>Charnie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 20:24:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beyondbt.com/?p=1627#comment-389288</guid>
		<description>Sorry about the many typos... I admit to being a poor proofreader of my own typing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry about the many typos&#8230; I admit to being a poor proofreader of my own typing.</p>
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		<title>By: Charnie</title>
		<link>http://www.beyondbt.com/2009/11/30/lifecycle-events-tips-on-making-a-wedding-a-bar-mitzvah-or-a-bris/comment-page-1/#comment-389287</link>
		<dc:creator>Charnie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 20:23:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beyondbt.com/?p=1627#comment-389287</guid>
		<description>While now with, B&quot;H, two Bar M&#039;s, one Bat and one wedding under my belt, I&#039;d like to thank Judy for this well put together article.  I&#039;d like to emphasis the value of the notebook.  A woman from my community suggested this to me when my daughter became a kallah, and it never left my side until after the wedding (I took it with me to hall, because our contract and all other details pertaining to the caterer were also in there).  Divide it up into sections, such as &quot;Halls&quot;, &quot;attire, makeup and sheitels&quot;, and &quot;Other&quot;.  You just never know when you&#039;re on line in the store behind someone who recently made a wedding, and has good info to share.  Which brings back Judy&#039;s original point - network.  Call people whose simchas you&#039;ve been to and find out about their experiences with the venue.  Also, set a budget and stick to it!

And most of all, enjoy your simcha!  You&#039;ve worked hard to reach this milestone in your family&#039;s life, now it&#039;s time to have fun!  Don&#039;t worry - no one will notice if the caterer served a different appetizer then the one you&#039;d expected.  They will remember if it was leibidich.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While now with, B&#8221;H, two Bar M&#8217;s, one Bat and one wedding under my belt, I&#8217;d like to thank Judy for this well put together article.  I&#8217;d like to emphasis the value of the notebook.  A woman from my community suggested this to me when my daughter became a kallah, and it never left my side until after the wedding (I took it with me to hall, because our contract and all other details pertaining to the caterer were also in there).  Divide it up into sections, such as &#8220;Halls&#8221;, &#8220;attire, makeup and sheitels&#8221;, and &#8220;Other&#8221;.  You just never know when you&#8217;re on line in the store behind someone who recently made a wedding, and has good info to share.  Which brings back Judy&#8217;s original point &#8211; network.  Call people whose simchas you&#8217;ve been to and find out about their experiences with the venue.  Also, set a budget and stick to it!</p>
<p>And most of all, enjoy your simcha!  You&#8217;ve worked hard to reach this milestone in your family&#8217;s life, now it&#8217;s time to have fun!  Don&#8217;t worry &#8211; no one will notice if the caterer served a different appetizer then the one you&#8217;d expected.  They will remember if it was leibidich.</p>
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		<title>By: Judy Resnick</title>
		<link>http://www.beyondbt.com/2009/11/30/lifecycle-events-tips-on-making-a-wedding-a-bar-mitzvah-or-a-bris/comment-page-1/#comment-389282</link>
		<dc:creator>Judy Resnick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 19:59:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beyondbt.com/?p=1627#comment-389282</guid>
		<description>Hope I&#039;m not violating any blog rules by commenting on my own posting.  I enjoyed reading the comments.  As I pointed out, I was only starting the conversation, which I hope will be ongoing and longlasting.  Our ability as BT&#039;s to &quot;think out of the box&quot; will hopefully help others planning simchas to realize there are affordable and acceptable alternatives to the way &quot;everyone&quot; does it.  

With four daughters of my own, I genuinely did not mean to slight Bnos Mitzvah, but it seems IMHO that the hashkafa varies widely on how to best mark this important day in a young Bas Yisroel&#039;s life.  Sometimes girls want to do exactly what the other girls in their class are doing, and sometimes they want something entirely different.  

On separate versus mixed seating, I think you really have to go with what your own Posaik tells you.  I&#039;ve heard of people doing some mixed tables for workplace associates and relatives, along with separate tables for the frummer velt.  It is good to hear that some divorced couples do put aside the bitterness to make a family joint simcha; obviously, everybody&#039;s life situation is unique. I genuinely do agree with the commenter about how it&#039;s the Bar Mitzvah boy&#039;s special day, not his relatives.  Possibly everybody can be accommodated by having something special just for the boy and his friends (maybe Sat. night pizza and ice skating) plus another party for the aunts, uncles and cousins (doesn&#039;t have to cost a lot).  As I said above, maybe the Bar Mitzvah boy really most of all would like a trip to Israel (it might possibly be more affordable than a huge catered extravaganza).  Continue the conversation!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hope I&#8217;m not violating any blog rules by commenting on my own posting.  I enjoyed reading the comments.  As I pointed out, I was only starting the conversation, which I hope will be ongoing and longlasting.  Our ability as BT&#8217;s to &#8220;think out of the box&#8221; will hopefully help others planning simchas to realize there are affordable and acceptable alternatives to the way &#8220;everyone&#8221; does it.  </p>
<p>With four daughters of my own, I genuinely did not mean to slight Bnos Mitzvah, but it seems IMHO that the hashkafa varies widely on how to best mark this important day in a young Bas Yisroel&#8217;s life.  Sometimes girls want to do exactly what the other girls in their class are doing, and sometimes they want something entirely different.  </p>
<p>On separate versus mixed seating, I think you really have to go with what your own Posaik tells you.  I&#8217;ve heard of people doing some mixed tables for workplace associates and relatives, along with separate tables for the frummer velt.  It is good to hear that some divorced couples do put aside the bitterness to make a family joint simcha; obviously, everybody&#8217;s life situation is unique. I genuinely do agree with the commenter about how it&#8217;s the Bar Mitzvah boy&#8217;s special day, not his relatives.  Possibly everybody can be accommodated by having something special just for the boy and his friends (maybe Sat. night pizza and ice skating) plus another party for the aunts, uncles and cousins (doesn&#8217;t have to cost a lot).  As I said above, maybe the Bar Mitzvah boy really most of all would like a trip to Israel (it might possibly be more affordable than a huge catered extravaganza).  Continue the conversation!</p>
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		<title>By: Baal Simcha</title>
		<link>http://www.beyondbt.com/2009/11/30/lifecycle-events-tips-on-making-a-wedding-a-bar-mitzvah-or-a-bris/comment-page-1/#comment-389229</link>
		<dc:creator>Baal Simcha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 07:04:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beyondbt.com/?p=1627#comment-389229</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your insights.  We B&quot;H have been zocher to make quite a few Barmitzvah&#039;s (dito for brisim, Shalom Zochars &amp; of course a Pidyon Haben). An important note re Barmitzvah&#039;s: A kid of B.T.&#039;s does not have 2 frum zeida&#039;s on either side &amp; a bunch of uncles, cousins etc.  Most likely he has a few non frum relatives he&#039;s embarrassed of!  Make him a Barmitzva like his friends have (don&#039;t accommodate non frum relatives by making his barmitzvah different, it&#039;s the boys special day not theirs).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your insights.  We B&#8221;H have been zocher to make quite a few Barmitzvah&#8217;s (dito for brisim, Shalom Zochars &amp; of course a Pidyon Haben). An important note re Barmitzvah&#8217;s: A kid of B.T.&#8217;s does not have 2 frum zeida&#8217;s on either side &amp; a bunch of uncles, cousins etc.  Most likely he has a few non frum relatives he&#8217;s embarrassed of!  Make him a Barmitzva like his friends have (don&#8217;t accommodate non frum relatives by making his barmitzvah different, it&#8217;s the boys special day not theirs).</p>
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		<title>By: Bar Mitzvah Israel</title>
		<link>http://www.beyondbt.com/2009/11/30/lifecycle-events-tips-on-making-a-wedding-a-bar-mitzvah-or-a-bris/comment-page-1/#comment-389225</link>
		<dc:creator>Bar Mitzvah Israel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 06:44:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beyondbt.com/?p=1627#comment-389225</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the pointers. This is especially more complex when making your simcha in Israel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the pointers. This is especially more complex when making your simcha in Israel.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Frankel</title>
		<link>http://www.beyondbt.com/2009/11/30/lifecycle-events-tips-on-making-a-wedding-a-bar-mitzvah-or-a-bris/comment-page-1/#comment-389217</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Frankel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 04:11:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beyondbt.com/?p=1627#comment-389217</guid>
		<description>Regarding Bat Mitzvahs. I think they&#039;re the best value around. They cost 1/5 the price of Bar Mitzvahs and the girls have an amazing time. One friend did point out that although in absolute dollars they are cheaper, they take much more time to plan and execute.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding Bat Mitzvahs. I think they&#8217;re the best value around. They cost 1/5 the price of Bar Mitzvahs and the girls have an amazing time. One friend did point out that although in absolute dollars they are cheaper, they take much more time to plan and execute.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary</title>
		<link>http://www.beyondbt.com/2009/11/30/lifecycle-events-tips-on-making-a-wedding-a-bar-mitzvah-or-a-bris/comment-page-1/#comment-389213</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 03:00:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beyondbt.com/?p=1627#comment-389213</guid>
		<description>Judy, good thoughts overall, but I&#039;d like to point out some areas where more flexibility is possible than  you describe.

There is no reason for ALL divorced people to skip the two-head/two-bank account paragraph. My ex and I made two nice Bat Mitzvahs very cooperatively. We will G-d willing do the same for weddings. I have also seen divorced people set aside bitter differences to walk down the aisle on either side of their child. (who walks down with whom, i.e. two mothers with bride, two parents with their own child, is something that varies widely regardless of parents&#039; marital status.)

You mentioned that you have four daughters, but you didn&#039;t mention any type of Bat Mitzvah commemoration for them. While the types of public celebrations for girls reaching the age of majority are quite varied, the personal commemoration of this milestone for the young woman should not be neglected.

Finally, appeasing Aunt Sylvia and Uncle Max (or one&#039;s own relatives from Jewish Central Casting) shouldn&#039;t be the ONLY reason to have an alternative to completely separate seating, but there are other ways to halachically hitch a couple. Within my shul, and even within particular families, I have seen variations: completely separate, mostly  mixed/some separate, and almost completely separated with one or two mixed tables.

Thanks for your thoughtful musings, and also for searching out the inner reaches of beyondbt.com. Thanks to your comments, I have read many older posts that I did not know existed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Judy, good thoughts overall, but I&#8217;d like to point out some areas where more flexibility is possible than  you describe.</p>
<p>There is no reason for ALL divorced people to skip the two-head/two-bank account paragraph. My ex and I made two nice Bat Mitzvahs very cooperatively. We will G-d willing do the same for weddings. I have also seen divorced people set aside bitter differences to walk down the aisle on either side of their child. (who walks down with whom, i.e. two mothers with bride, two parents with their own child, is something that varies widely regardless of parents&#8217; marital status.)</p>
<p>You mentioned that you have four daughters, but you didn&#8217;t mention any type of Bat Mitzvah commemoration for them. While the types of public celebrations for girls reaching the age of majority are quite varied, the personal commemoration of this milestone for the young woman should not be neglected.</p>
<p>Finally, appeasing Aunt Sylvia and Uncle Max (or one&#8217;s own relatives from Jewish Central Casting) shouldn&#8217;t be the ONLY reason to have an alternative to completely separate seating, but there are other ways to halachically hitch a couple. Within my shul, and even within particular families, I have seen variations: completely separate, mostly  mixed/some separate, and almost completely separated with one or two mixed tables.</p>
<p>Thanks for your thoughtful musings, and also for searching out the inner reaches of beyondbt.com. Thanks to your comments, I have read many older posts that I did not know existed.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Miller</title>
		<link>http://www.beyondbt.com/2009/11/30/lifecycle-events-tips-on-making-a-wedding-a-bar-mitzvah-or-a-bris/comment-page-1/#comment-389189</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 20:52:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beyondbt.com/?p=1627#comment-389189</guid>
		<description>Communal expectations are often disconnected from halacha, or even against it.  In our communal chaos, there are too few leaders with the desire and ability to correct wrong expectations successfully.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Communal expectations are often disconnected from halacha, or even against it.  In our communal chaos, there are too few leaders with the desire and ability to correct wrong expectations successfully.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Frankel</title>
		<link>http://www.beyondbt.com/2009/11/30/lifecycle-events-tips-on-making-a-wedding-a-bar-mitzvah-or-a-bris/comment-page-1/#comment-389186</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Frankel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 20:25:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beyondbt.com/?p=1627#comment-389186</guid>
		<description>Despite our personal desires, a big problem is communal expectations which are generally too high.

I&#039;ve seen signs of hope that things can get better.

In Kew Gardens Hills you can have a small Bar Mitzvah although the majority of people are still spending a lot of money.

Weddings cost a fortune but there are some Chasidic groups which are trying to set an under $10,000 wedding.

Just imagine if we were able to bring the expectations down, closer to Eretz Israel, how much money we would save and I don&#039;t think it would be any less of a Simcha.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Despite our personal desires, a big problem is communal expectations which are generally too high.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve seen signs of hope that things can get better.</p>
<p>In Kew Gardens Hills you can have a small Bar Mitzvah although the majority of people are still spending a lot of money.</p>
<p>Weddings cost a fortune but there are some Chasidic groups which are trying to set an under $10,000 wedding.</p>
<p>Just imagine if we were able to bring the expectations down, closer to Eretz Israel, how much money we would save and I don&#8217;t think it would be any less of a Simcha.</p>
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