“The people in Lakewood, New Jersey, despite their admiration for Brisker Torah, do not discuss Yeshiva University, nor does the RIETS school at YU acknowledge these college-hating rabbis across the Hudson River. Nobody else exists in the Orthodox Jewish world except each one’s own little circle. And we haven’t even included the great numbers of other Chassidim (Bobov, Belz, Satmar, Pupa, Amshinov, Gerrer, etc. etc. etc.)’

WADR, if one were to access many of the shiurim at YuTorah, one would easily encounter RIETS RY mentioning the Torah of other yeshivos, including Lakewood, as well as the Divrei Torah of the Chasidishe world. May I suggest that you take a look at the sefarim of R Baruch Simon (Imrei Baruch on Breishis, Shmos, Vayikra and Eruvin) if you need verification on a first hand basis?

Is it possible that living in separate worlds sometimes reduces the level of conflict?

I respect highly the mission of Yeshiva University in educating Orthodox Jewish leaders and professionals, and I am happy to hear from Steve Brizel that RIETS is still well regarded in the Charedi media.

I suspect that part of the problem is the extreme compartmentalization of American Orthodoxy today. For instance, one reads through the entire Chabad-Lubavitch website about amazing Chabad-Lubavitch accomplishments (and there are many) but no word at all about any other Orthodox Jewish group. Similarly, as pointed out previously on this thread, Rabbi Moshe Sherer of Agudath Israel of America was described in a recent book as the “voice of Torah Jewry for more than half a century” but I think that would be surprising news to the people at 770 Eastern Parkway. Agudah does not recognize that Chabad exists, Chabad does not recognize that Agudah exists.

The people in Lakewood, New Jersey, despite their admiration for Brisker Torah, do not discuss Yeshiva University, nor does the RIETS school at YU acknowledge these college-hating rabbis across the Hudson River. Nobody else exists in the Orthodox Jewish world except each one’s own little circle. And we haven’t even included the great numbers of other Chassidim (Bobov, Belz, Satmar, Pupa, Amshinov, Gerrer, etc. etc. etc.)

I know this has gone far afield from the original posting about the 25th anniversary of ArtScroll’s siddur. I think it’s because anniversaries involve taking stock of the good and the bad, and especially in analyzing what role ArtScroll Publications and its English language translations played in the growth of Orthodox Judaism in the late 20th century.

RIETS today, as testified to by none other than R Aharon Lichtenstein,is a far better yeshiva than it was even and especially during RYBS’s heyday.Anyone familiar with RIETS knows that there is a new generation of RIETS and RIETS Kollelim trained RY who are the yeshiva’s best recruiters and who are responsible for the impressive attendance at a night seder after morning seder, shiur and college classes. Today’s RIETS RY are accorded far more respect in the Charedi media as Talmidei Chachamim than in the secular Jewish media. Thus, based on the facts on the ground, as opposed to the urban myths and stereotypes, RIETS will and is projecting its influence for decades to come.

Where YU and RIETS IMO need to focus their efforts is in the community kollel sphere, which presently are dominated by the Charedi yeshiva world. While YU and RIETS have begun a few such kollelim, they need to establish the same in the “boondocks” of the American Jewish community, if it is serious on projecting a committed MO to the American Jewish public as an alternative to the Charedi way of life. One cannnot deny that community kollelim not only are great sources of Harbatzas Torah LRabim, and aiding in Kiruv and Chizuk-they serve as means of identifying new donors.

As far as Touro College is concerned, Ms. Resnick correctly describes its mission, but even YU reacted to the challenge of TC by openning a business school, which would have been unheard of when I attended YU, which was then blindly devoted to the mantra of Torah and the liberal arts a.k.a Torah UMada.If Touro ever saw itself in direct competition with YU, it would be offering the equivalent of a pre med curriculum in its undergraduate curriculums, as opposed to the noteworthy accomplishments of its pre law graduates.

The growth of Touro College over the past 35 years has also had an impact on the effect of YU on American Orthodoxy. Touro College has since its founding made it clear that its sole reason for being is to train people to earn a living. It did not set out to build a whole new philosophy of Torah Im Derech Eretz or Torah U’Mada or “Bringing Wisdom to Life.” Touro College may want one day to become Touro University, but it does not want to become the central hashkafic authority for a new branch of American Orthodoxy. Yeshiva University may very well and correctly believe that it is qualitatively as distant from Touro College as Yale University is from Connecticut College, and that its rabbinical school is far superior to Lakewood.

But by 2020, Yeshiva University graduates will find themselves outnumbered by Touro alumni and rabbis without university degrees. The ideals and teachings of the Rav, Rabbi Joseph B. Soloveitchik, zatzal, will be cherished and remembered only by a small part of the Orthodox Jewish world. YU is going to be seen as just another university; an elite one, no doubt; a selective and highly regarded one; no doubt; but no more of an influence on the thinking of the Orthodox Jewish world than Brandeis or Columbia.

And I may be a minority of one, but I’ve found the Artscroll siddur hard to use: The italic English is annoying, the translation, while pretty literal, is not elevating, and the page layout is hard to follow.

I wasn’t offended by the Ken-L Ration ditty. I wasn’t too amused either but I understand some people don’t “get” having well developed points of view that are worthy of defending vigorously.

Each Orthodox faction is able to publish its own books and periodicals to its own liking. One faction’s criticism of another’s style, content, nuance, lack of nuance…is not all that important to most people.

(My acronyms are bigger than your acronyms any day!)

In response to your query, I would suggest that part of the problem is that MO could and should have emphasized respect for the Gdolei Talmidie Chachamim within RIETS as much as it does respect for the successful professional or business leader within its midst. One can argue that RZ, which previously had and still has some hashkafic influence within MO circles, was once a bridge of sorts between the Torah world and the secular world. However, after 1967 and especially post 1973, RZ became so enwrapped with the Land of Israel that it seemingly forgot about the Nation of Israel. MO, outside of the OU’s critically important and historic support of NCSY and NJOP, has never really been confident in itself in terms of its Halachic and Hashkafic goals to be engaged in kiruv, but increasingly seems content to be shoring up its own communities.

RJR, being a U of Chicago and Yale LS grad, is a great advocate, a very entertaining speaker and wonderful thinker who knows to write and is always willing to tell anyone, including myself that like, many Charedim,he has great respect for RYBS’s Torah, RIETS and its RY. I respect RJR’s many cogent insights into the Charedi world. However, IMO, his writings, as is the case of many Charedim, assume that MO is monolithic, when it is obvious and evident that, as is the case within the Charedi world, that there is a LW, a center and RW. Unfortunately, RJR’s writings, IMO, other than an occasional reference to RSRH’s writings and to RYBS as a leader of MO show little evidence of my thesis-namely that MO and the Charedi worlds have much to appreciate from the other without engaging in what I consider the useless pilpul of recognition of whose vision is more “authentic” and that there is a committed MO world that has no use for the issues or ideologues of LW MO and views them as persons whose POV would never be consulted on any issue of halacha, important or seemingly minor, let alone issues of Hashkafa or Minhagim. I refer you to my prior posts on where IMO the LW of MO has ered in its obsession with gender related issues and its bemoaning the swing to the right, which has rendered the LW of MO largely irrelevant except to those LW MO who define themselves by their thinking and writing on such issues.

As far as the belittling of RYBS within the Charedi world, this is a matter of historical record that goes back to the 1950s and which has continued unabated in many sectors within the Charedi world.

Shades of Gray-The books that you referenced sound quite interesting. However, my critique of the hagiography genre and its most recent example stands. It is wrong to minimize a Gadol as a head of a political movement. It is wrong to call the Agudah the center for Torah Judaism in the US and to assume that it is singularly responsible for all of the positive growth of Torah Judaism in the US.

Do you think your last comment was a personal attack?

My comment about Steve and Ron was not intended as a personal attack and no way was that implied in my ditty. Where do you see the inference of a personal attack???

But the argument which has come up many many times before between the different camps of RWMO (Steve) and LWUO (Ron) is which derech is better. I personally find that argument tiresome, divisive and non productive and instead of expressing it in a more forceful way, I tried to express in humorously as a ditty.

Sorry if the ditty offended you but as you see there are different ways to express disagreement without a personal attack.

Was that a personal attack?