On the buses traveling between Monsey, Brooklyn, Lakewood, etc., the overwhelming majority of the passengers are very strictly Orthodox people traveling between very strictly Orthodox neighborhoods. Even so, I have heard comments that since these are public lines, separate seating is technically illegal.

On the other hand, the buses in Israel attract a mixed clientele. These passengers can include secular and less strictly orthodox people who are traveling to the strictly Orthodox neighborhoods to visit, shop, and study, or perhaps they may just be passing through.

Setting legal issues aside, the separation in the New York area can be accomplished with a good deal more civility than it can in Israel.

There are so many stories about acts of kindness and Kiddush Hashem on public buses, in Israel and beyond. In Israel, if all types of Jews can share a scarce public accomodation while being nice to each other, we will be able to add to the list of such acts.

David: How dare you presume to suggest that you know what I was thinking!

Hey, just kidding everyone.

Really, I stopped already. T’is the busy season and I’m way behind in my yontif preparations. If you hear from me again till after Pesach, just tell me to shut up and go to work. Have a freilichen Purim and kosheren Pesach everyone.

Really now. Who’s gonna stop first?

Yawning is contagious. I’m so tired.

You should have stopped there.

So basically your saying that a woman who violates the sanctity of the Monsey bus deserves to get abused. Actually, you may know more about the situation in Israel than you think because that mentality is a big part of the problem.

As for your anti-Israel tirade…all I can do is yawn. Every yeshiva bocher trots out this trite list whenever the subject comes up. Most if is either ancient history or melodramatic. But it really dovetails nicely into Rabbis Goldson’s point. The government you believe is so evil really IS a democracy (your quotes notwithstanding) and to the extent that these poor, abused people (in their growing and thriving communities) care more about their narrow interests (read money) than the country as whole they are as much, or more, a part of the “problem” as anyone else.

I don’t think Rabbi Goldson effectively makes his argument here because of an erroneous comparison between the proper derech in learning and the proper derech in avodas Hashem. It is true that in learning, machlokes is prized above unity of approach, but the reverse is true in avodas Hashem. That’s why there’s is a psak din on every single one of those arguments brought down in shas, so that our avodas Hashem is not willy-nilly with each following the argument he likes better. So to generalize from learning to assume that disagreement, respectful or otherwise, is somehow a part of the spirit of yiddishkeit is at best suspect.

And I have heard and read horror stories of Palestinians being verbally and sometimes physically abused… for no reason at all. Yeah, right, poor things.

I don’t know enough about the situation in Israel, but if anything happened in the US, you can be sure those poor little ladies were provocating frum Jews on their own turf, refusing to abide by the rules for which they have set up their own bus routes. If they don’t like it, let them ride Port Authority!

(BTW, you heard what they did to the mekoshesh eitzim? And to the ben sorer umoreh, poor boy?)

As for lashon horah, where were you when the lashon horah was going strong against the frum Jews? I suggest you learn the laws about who is included in עמך (of לא תלך רכיל בעמך) and who is excluded. The Chofetz Chaim must be turning in his grave knowing how his monumental work has been stood on its head. People spitting venom against frum Jews start yelling “lashon horah!” as soon as the criticism is directed against reshaim about whom we are PERMITTED to speak out against and DISCOURAGED from judging favorably. (see Chofetz Chaim 4:7.)

“Yes the same “vicious anti-religiosity” that has helped build thousands of yeshivas, shuls, and mikvas…”

Don’t get me started on this one. (I know, I know, I shouldn’t have started it.) Desecration of graves… compulsory autopsies… spiritual genocide of the Teheran children, Morroccan Jewry, Yemenite Jewry, Iraqi Jewry… kidnapping Yemenite children… mixed club and pool next door to Meah Shearim… brutal, sometimes fatel, beatings of frum protestors, even little children… allowing, sometimes abetting, missionary activity… keeping the Rabbanut hostage in the hands of Bagatz… importing and kashering non-Jews… “Perfect, not yet”?… The understatement of the millenium.

Would you accept such treatment from Ahmadinejad? Obama? Would you defend the US that it has helped build thousands of yeshivas if it had treated its frum Jews that way? Because the Israelis are Jews, because they’re our brothers, because all their ancestors were religious, you expect LESS of them?

I’m sorry I opened this can of worms, but now that I did, I can’t let them crawl all over the place. I promise bl”n I’ll never do it again.