That said, not every intellectually gifted girl or woman will feel as you do. Some will feel a greater need for frequent and intense intellectual stimulation. I don’t find that most of what I spend my time on in my job as mother is intellectually stimulating. Yes, it takes thought. No doubt. But intellectually stimulating? Not really. Now that my kids are a little older it’s easier to find that stimulation, but when my kids were little, it just wasn’t there. And there is a feeling that, if Hashem blesses a girl with intellectual gifts, it must be for a reason. She should use it. And if she’s steered only toward motherhood, she may not — and that would be a shame.

I don’t know what you’re talking about.

As an “intellectually gifted” mother of 8, I don’t like that statement at all.

HAVING CHILDREN IS NOT A WASTE OF A LIFE!!!!

Sorry to yell, but raising children can be just as fulfilling as building rockets or discovering new vaccines. I was NOT raised Orthodox. I went to public school. I was a total math nerd — I participated in state-wide and regional math competitions as part of the County Math Team while still in High School (on Shabbos, no less), I even went to an Ivy League University. But for all my “intelligence,” I am most fulfilled while being creative — sewing, writing, baking, producing children, molding them to be tomorrow’s leaders.

I was SO pushed in HS towards a Science or Math career, because I was “a girl who is good at math!” but I didn’t WANT to go into science or math. (Only it took me until halfway through college to figure that out, and a lot of wasted tuition dollars!) Sometimes talent needs to be “wasted,” or saved for pure entertainment (or to help my children with their homework) instead of turned into a profession. All children are “steered” by their family’s and culture’s expectations. Don’t come down so hard on the cheredi just because you don’t happen to agree with their choices.

As an adult, a person may choose to do something that he or she is good at but doesn’t enjoy for the money to support their families, and that’s not necessarily a problem, but if they choose to do something they enjoy and feel fulfilled through instead, then that is their choice, not yours.

Ron Coleman:

Some of our ancestors came from places like Germany and Lithuania, that had thriving “MO” style communities; others came from the Sefardic/Mizrahhi world, which never broke up the spectrum of observance into an all-or-nothing proposition.

In contrast, the other main enclave of Jewish life, Israel, consists of what is mainly perceived as a black — deep black — and white set of choices, and those who don’t make it in the haredi world are not, as they might be in America, allowed any kind of soft option out. (My impression is that while there are exceptions, most dati Israelis grew up that way, and are not former haredim. I meet MO Israelis from haredi families here, not there.) This may not be new; perhaps it is more akin to the world of our forefathers in the old country, where there was little in the way of the Young Israel movement or Bnei Akiva — you were in the the shtetl or you were in one or another form of anti-religious group.

I wonder which situation presents a greater challenge to a young person growing up frum.

This really isn’t true except for in strict charedi circles. And even then, it doesn’t mean it’s right or particularly representative of Orthodox circles as a whole. The correct way to educate Orthodox children is to bring them up according to their needs. Not everyone is cut out to be in yeshiva/sem all day.. people have different traits and if they aren’t catered for they will turn away from the religion. That’s exactly the mistake. But if the kids are taught to use their tendencies for elevated purposes, they are no less righteous and holy than someone who’s in yeshiva all day. e.g. someone who has a thirst for blood and guns and hates learning -what do you do with him? You either send him to the IDF or you train him to be a shochet (someone who cuts kosher meat) or a mohel (someone who circumcises). Etc.

I suppose orthodox judaism does not suit everybody.

Take classical music: of course it is be
autiful, it is beautiful to have an orchestra and skilled soloists… But not everyone is gifted for it… And not everyone wants to spend half an hour, an hour, two hours, x hours a day practicing.

Perhaps there are orthodox jewish boys who are gifted for ballet, or for sports, or for music. They are all forced into the “Yeshiva” mold.

Perhaps there are orthodox jewish girls who are intellectually gifted, more so than their brothers… No, they will be prepared to have as many children as possible…

At least, in music families, it is known that children might be gifted for something else… ….even if they might consider it a disgrace…

Shabbat Shalom.

Could you help me out with the full wording of “RYBS” and “SA”?

Your statement that we must adhere to halachot that prohibit certain activities while also experiencing the joy of rituals is beyond dispute. However, most of us don’t reach that level all at once.

I would say that someone whose increased observance consist of “nothing more” than having a proper Shabbat dinner while not becoming completely Shomer Shabbat has still grown significantly.

I never thought I would be beyond that level. Then one Friday night, I decided that starting the dishwasher immediately after dinner would cause too rapid a descent from the tranquil feeling that accompanied the dinner.

It hasn’t been a straight line to my present level of observance, and there have been dips below the early baseline as well. However, it was the “fun” experiences that got me back on this path, followed by a growth in appreciation for halachical detail and Torah learning.

This is a very nice article.

The word “fun” may not be all-encompassing, but it is certainly relevant in any discussion of Jewish observance.

People often arrive at the decision to commit to observant Judaism after introspection or contemplation of personal or newsworthy events. They often seek guidelines that are superior to those that they have encountered in the secular world. Mussar works such as Mesillat Yesharim/Pathway of the Just, which are a great source for people such as us, are not new. Now, with English translations and vowelized Hebrew, these great texts are now getting the attention and accessibility that they deserve.

Did you ever indicate that you would like to experience a shabbos meal, by going to shul, speaking to the rabbi or rebbetzin, etc? Most frum adults are hesitant to preach, or be perceived as proselytizing and unfortunately that translates to a hesitancy to reach out to those whom they don’t perceive as interested. Please try to give the benefit of the doubt. Even in the most insular of communities there are families who are very welcoming. It may not be the majority, but how many non-religious folks have invited you *as a stranger* to a meal in their home??? For some, it’s a hard thing to do.

Onward and Upward. May I also point out that this is a central foundation of Channukah. The Miracles in those days and these days as we say in the Al Hanissim. The Channukah Miracle today is when Jewish Children can find more Geshmak in learning and doing Mitzvos in the middle of the Mheshuganah Galus in which we all live ! That Jewish families can find happiness and fulfillment in Shabbos Menuchah while the Goyish world rages on outside with all of its excitement and entertainment.