16 Responses to “What are the Greatest Threats to Torah Judaism?”

1. Aliza
   May 13th, 2008 @ 6:52 am

   I think the main reason why someone might become disenchanted with Judaism is if they don’t know the meaning behind why they do certain things, and are simply living out of habit. That’s the beauty of a BT, the excitement, love and joy for doing a mitzvah…

   I suppose also living in the societies we live in, being inundated with secular values and ideals, it’s hard to survive as a frum Jew without any sort of influence. I understand when people say we’re going through a spiritual holocaust these days.

   (I don’t personally think this second thought, but I can see where someone would be coming from and how they could think that.)

2. Heidi
   May 13th, 2008 @ 10:20 am

   I think one of the greatest threats is all the financial pressure. It is so difficult to afford this lifestyle. I know it sounds very shallow…But it is so hard to pay so much for tuition to a school where I am not 100% convinced my kids are even getting the best education… I know not much can be done about cost of kosher food, but that on top of tuition and on top of having to live in an expensive area to be part of a community, it is quite stressful. I think this may be a bt thing in that it is not how I was raised. My parents did not go through this struggle. I went to a public school, lived out in the suburbs with a huge back yard, did several extracurricular activities…While Thank God my faith is somewhat solid, I can see how someone who is struggling with his or her faith may opt for the other path.

3. Charles B. Hall
   May 13th, 2008 @ 6:33 pm

   I think the greatest threat to Torah Judaism is how we treat each other. We lost the second temple because of sinat chinam and we still don’t seem to have gotten the message. There are other major problems such as the fact that Torah communities are not financially self sustaining either in America or in Israel (probably with the exception of the dati leumi communities in Israel) and the fact that we like to pretend that a lot of the social problems in the non-Jewish world don’t affect us, but I think we can solve them if we realize we are all one people and depend upon each other.

4. Mark Frankel
   May 13th, 2008 @ 6:56 pm

   I agree that how we care and treat each other is the main problem. Many of the other problems would be adequately addressed if we notched up the concern a few levels.

   For BTs, this issue is especially important considering how much we have to hide and disown parts of ourselves in order to fit in and/or pretend that we’re FFBs.

   I think the first step in this is the recognition that we’re all part of this problem. Everybody needs improvement here.

5. Kalanit
   May 13th, 2008 @ 8:15 pm

   I am very concerned about the lack of achdus between the different groups _within_ Torah Judaism. If the definitio of “what is Torah Judaism/orthodoxy/living according to halacha” keeps narrowing, we’re in danger of losing people.

6. Steve Brizel
   May 13th, 2008 @ 9:04 pm

   It seems like a long time ago since I posted here about mutual appreciation beyond one’s individual hashkafic boundaries. Unfortunately, I think that the need for mutual appreciation is great, but the prevalence of urban mythology and stereotypes is a huge problem that crosses all hashkafic lines.

7. Bob Miller
   May 13th, 2008 @ 9:39 pm

   Even when there is a degree of understanding across hashkafic boundaries, people sometimes deny it. For example, in the aftermath of the horrific killings at Mercaz HaRav, some people jumped in immediately to allege that Chareidim were indifferent to this event. When the truth came out, they did not all retract their hasty judgments which had been based on sterotypical thinking.

8. Bob Miller
   May 13th, 2008 @ 9:39 pm

   s/b stereotypical

9. DK
   May 14th, 2008 @ 1:14 am

   Modern Orthodoxy: The greatest — bar none- at bekius, but sorely lacking at b’iyun, both in the religious world, and in the secular world. Not all can go so deeply in both, but more can go deeper in one and not lose footing in the other.

   LWUO: Needs to recognize that not publicly embracing scientific method is itself a form of denial. No good can come from this, and it needs to be addressed. Scientific method can be embraced openly without going “modern.” Limits need to be recognized on the concept of “daas Torah.”

10. Orthonomics
    May 14th, 2008 @ 2:14 am

    I’d say most of the problems are interrelated and have sub-issues. My list would be (in no particular order):
    Disenfranchisement, sinat chinam, fiscal erosion, growing cynicism and distrust, lack of respect for other people’s property/money, parenting, and “kashrut” over yashrut (I can’t take another story about involving frum Jews and dishonest dealing. . . . I don’t care how much tzedakah you gave!).

11. Ron Coleman
    May 14th, 2008 @ 5:23 pm

    What does it mean, “threats to Torah Judaism”? Obviously the Torah is eternal. Does the term mean, the “Torah community”? What is that? All sectors of it? All neighborhoods? Is what’s bad for Lakewood good for Passaic or Teaneck, or vice versa? A lot of people foresee a collapse, even in America, of the kollel economic system. Is that a threat to “Torah Judaism”? Or would it be a blessing in disguise?

    Yep, more questions than answers!

12. bankman
    May 14th, 2008 @ 7:34 pm

    Ron, excellent!

    All this stuff about sinas chinam and treating eachother nicely is bogus people. That stuff has been with the jews for thousands of years! Read the navi! Jews used to KILL eachother! Go to war! Talking bad behind someones back does not destory judaism.

    The financial burden, exacerbated by the push within orthodox communities to learn in kollel or become a rebbi is going to push many people away, in my view. That’s the biggest threat – no one can pay tuition, or afford to live at a lifestyle equal to that of our secular neigbors. Its gonna get worse before it gets better

13. Ron Coleman
    May 14th, 2008 @ 8:41 pm

    Bankman, thanks. This really is a topic that comes up wherever orthodox Jews gather, at least the black hatted ones. It is an extraordinary thing that shidduchim are actually made premised on some boys having a specific “price” for monthly “support” on which they insist as a prima facie condition for going out with a girl. I follow the logic of it, yes, but — it strikes me as really, really ugly. I cannot get away from this.

    Even so I am not sure either the continuation of this or the end of it would affect “Torah Judaism” all that much. Just certain socioeconomic arrangements.

14. campus bt
    May 15th, 2008 @ 9:03 am

    As one who is struggling a bit with faith, the major struggle is with the cost of a frum lifestyle. WHY must it be sooo expensive??? A person making $80,000 a year, which is high by many standards, struggles to make it day by day, especially with tuition, kosher food, weekly wine, grape juice, tefillin, tallis, tzit-tzit, mezuzah, tzedakah, shul membership, and etc… How do people do it? It is unreal. With Hashem’s help it must work.

15. Ora
    May 15th, 2008 @ 7:25 pm

    Ron (#11)
    Excellent point. It’s not any more expensive for me to be frum than not frum (OK, maybe a tiny bit, but barely) living in Israel, while in America finances are a HUGE issue. The issues my community faces are different.

    I think that in a lot of ways our issues are the polar opposite of what’s facing the hareidi community. They can cling too much to minhag, while we are often too quick to throw minhagim away completely, they push kollel for everyone while in most DL communities full-time kollel isn’t even considered…etc (all of these are crass stereotypes that shouldn’t be seen as accurate for the entire hareidi/dati leumi communities. I’m just trying to make a point).

    I think the main problem facing communities is lack of a goal. We get too caught up in the day-to-day, not enough focus on WHY we’re doing this again. Great leaders, IMO, are the ones who manage to get Jews fired up about something, whether it’s kiruv, settling the land of Israel, bringing Moshiach, etc.

16. Steve Brizel
    May 15th, 2008 @ 10:54 pm

    Ora raised a very important point. Lately, I have been reading “Rejoice in Your Festivals”, which is a collection of the Drashos of R Kanotopsky ZTL, a rav and RY in RIETS and C Rabbi Jonathan Sacks’ book that R Gil Student mentioned on his blog. We need to remember that the Talmud exhorts us to remember both the contributions of Moshe Rabbeinu and David HaMelech in our lives as the Ish HaHalacha and the Baal Mnagen shel Zmiros Naim LYirael.

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