read the mefarshim. (and bear in mind that abarbanel often takes an “odd” point of view. (meant with respect. we don’t pasken that kol diburah erva)

Charley Hall,
(Co-ed orthodox schools have a very long history in America, dating back at least to the early 19th century, and possibly to colonial times.)
Well, maybe this explains the unglorious history of American Jewry before those fence builders came on the scene.

Michoel,
Mot only Satmar, but all ultra-frum Chassidish circles like Skver, Vizhnitz, Pupa, etc. hold to this high standard of tznius. In fact, the Mishna Berura paskens that a 3 year old girl should be dressed in full tznius attire. Yep, that’s the Chofetz Chayim.

And to all opposite-gender-friendly commenters,
What about אל תרבה שיחה עם האשה, באשתו אמרו קל וחומר באשת חברו?

As surrounding society changes, and as Orthodox society changes, g’dolim come to new understandings for the new times.

Everytime I read about these issues it makes me cringe how little even major rabbis actualy know about those simanim. (an honest study of it should be required for every yeshiva bochur and bais yaakov maidel when they turn about 16 or 17.) (sadly I think that siman is exactly why the roshei yeshivot flip when bochurim are learning even haezer, there is nothing in it that isn’t in seder nashim, and it is a good bit more tame, and if you’re studying nashim anyway why not learn the final halacha?)

and no, kalus rosh does not g-d forbid constitute mixing of the sexes according to any classical source, if it did it wouldn’t make sense in the context and manner in which it is used.

Rather it means levity, jesting, making rude jokes, etc.

THe above mentioned story about reb zonenfeld can’t be true because if it was he was a total ignoramous. (c”v!) at least for ashkenazim there is nothing at all wrong with this, not even an issur to be matir with “kol leshaim shemayim” (at least if you care to follow shulchan aruch, instead of making up ad hoc chumros.)

I think you may be correct regarding the change in acceptability of unmarried moms. Most of those teen moms in the 1950s were married by the time of the birth while today the “shotgun wedding” is long forgotten. But I’m not sure such is the path to stable, nurturing families. And in any case, it is easy to forget that there is nothing in the Noachide laws to prohibit premarital sex for non-Jews.

Regarding couples getting married, I don’t know how to define the population, but I just checked the National Center for Health Statistics and they report 36.9% of births are to unmarried mothers. And we frum Jews are only about 0.2% of the US population so we don’t contribute much to any statistic.

Ben David, that’s a new one to me. Different people express their sentiments in different ways. My mother, whom I loved dearly and with whom I had an excellent relationship, never kissed me. [Well, she would come into my room at night and give me a kiss when I was sleeping -- or when she thought I was (I was usually listening to a ball game under the covers).] It wasn’t any sort of chumra or tznius issue on her part; it just wasn’t her way to be overtly affectionate. After my oldest was born (and we waited a long time for her), I didn’t kiss in her public either. Again, it had nothing to do with tznius; I just didn’t feel comfortable expressing my affection in front of other people, probably because my parents hadn’t. By the time my next daughter was born, though, I had gotten over it, and I can safely say that my children do not suffer from a lack of overt signs of affection from me. But I have never heard of any halachah or even chumra that does not allow kissing one’s children of the opposite sex.

MiriamP, I hope you can “chill out” about your daughter. You know how kids (all kids) are – you tell them not to eat the cookies in the cookie jar, and those being the most tempting to them.

Is her father satisying her need for male approval and love?

Or was his affection abruptly withdrawn based on a halachic opinion of what is appropriate (as I have seen in several cases)?

Miriam, I know that I know nothing of your situation, and I’m not really directing this larely rhetorical question at you, personally.

But I know what I’ve seen.

I feel very strongly that this is not teaching one’s children tznius. It’s teaching one’s children that Hashem doesn’t care about them, and that His Torah is arbitrary and indifferent to human needs.

My wife kisses our 19-year-old haredi son, and if I had a daughter I’d do the same.

Tznius is about how to live in a community – like any mitzvah, it should not be humra’d into something unlivable, something that destroys community.

I don’t know, I’m having the hardest time convincing my 8.5 year old that she’s too old to hang on our male guests… and I (supposedly) made her stop at 6! But she really drapes herself on them, if not actually climbing on a lap. It’s disturbing to me when she does it to me, and completely inappropriate with our grown male guests.