Ron – I gotta call you on this one – the Moshiach will definitely be a misnagid – If he was a chossid then the misnagdim wouldn’t hear from it but if he was a misnagid, the chassidim would say “hey the Moshiach is here”:)

What I love about Rabbi Pliskin’s book, the Power of Words is that he not only points out the halachic issues, but consistently shows that improperly expressing things does not further our goals, which in the case of all Jews is increasing their love and appreciation of G-d and Torah.

I think de-legitimization is at the root of the disharmony between the Modern and the Ultra Orthodox and between the Non Observant and Observant Jews. If we really saw the discord this causes, I think we would take much greater pains when we express our differences.

When we say our path is the best, we to some extent de-legitimize other paths. It may not be our intention, but it is an unintended consequence. Isn’t it more in line with Torah to find the positive traits in others, so why do we focus so often on why we are right and others are wrong.

The need to feel superior to others is a negative trait which we need to overcome. In fact the Ramban in his Letter, advises to always find the ways that we are inferior to others to increase our humility.

Let’s continue to discuss the issues, that’s what this site is about, but perhaps we can resist the need to be the best, and just try to be good, with an eye towards being better Jews.

Though this is not really the place for it, I’ll just let you (and Bob) know that we have made some small steps toward reconciliation in our little corner of the world here.

We will never agree on certain fundamental issues, but we’ve actually managed, though dialog, to get our neighbors to agree to come to us first, before acting out. And so far, in two instances, issues were resolved pre-emtively.

There is an easy solution to this dilema: remain silent!

But I do agree with what you wrote. I respect Menachem very much.

Actually, one of the most divisive issues separating the Chareidim and DL is the very thing you think should unite them.

You have no understating of Modern Orthodoxy if you think this helps make your point.

So much of what you write make you seem like a Rip Van Winkle who fell asleep in the 50’s and just woke up. Within Modern Orthodoxy there growing numbers of people who are just as halachically observant as the most of observant of the UO. The differences often come down to issues of hashkafa and tolerence. (Bringing us full circle.)

Also, it’s a completely false assertion to say that just because the MO don’t have as many kids as the UO they are “static”. In Israel MO as 4-5 kids per family. I think it’s similar in the US. A community that’s doubling every generation is hardly “static”.

It’s media hype to assert that the the “zionist basis relative to the state has crumbled.” The Gaza withdrawl certainly raised major issues, but the underlying of MO hashkafa in Israel is quite sound and the community is vibrant and strong.

Rabbi Cardozo recently wrote a couple of essays on the future of Israel as demographics lead the UO to become a major political force. In his conclusion he said in order to maintain any semblance of society the UO will have to look to the RZ/MO for guidance as their ideology has enabled them to function “normally”. You are essentially saying something similar. In order for the UO to be able to function in their “new role” they will have to normalize and more toward a more MO philosophy.

You also make my point yourself in your next comment, “by and large what I’ve seen in the younger MO generation is a move to more halachic Judaism.” Exactly.

Charlie – non-covering of hair yet wearing hats among women, wearing of pants among women, as non-kosher leniences that were tolerated for generations. Mechitzas kosher only by every leniency bundled together and non-chalav-yisroel (the heter of HaRav Moshe Feinstein, zt”l) and examples of kosher leniencies.

BTW, my wife was a mikveh lady in a mikveh that strattled a MO and UO location. She often was calling the MO rav to verify that what the ladies came and described as permitted leniencies in their practice actually had the rav’s backing. (This were usually around issues of chatzizta, such as nail extensions.)

Can you give examples of such non-kosher leniencies?

“Note the simple statistic that almost every Jewish family in the US lost almost every member to assimilation.”

Rates of assimilation in Europe were almost as high.

“The “palpable sense of normalcy” that you experiencd then, but clearly see is lesser evident now is because many MO have continued to openly adapt the “norms” of the society which surrounds us, seemingly with few issues about whether the societal values are in the gutter or not.”

Actually, my experience is quite the opposite. Sure there pockets of super liberals who want to hold on to the lower halachic standards of their parents, but by and large what I’ve seen in the younger MO generation is a move to more halachic Judaism.

“To look at 40 years ago as the historical norm, is not accurate. It was a stage in the history of Klal Yisrael with some strengths and some weaknesses.”

For the past 4 months I have sat in the shiur of a grandson of one of the leading Gedolei Torah of the last century, the son of a currently Rosh Yeshiva and Gadol B’Torah, and Talmud Chachom in his own rite.

One of the most constant phrases he repeats to our shiur of mostly young, fresh, BTs is “Just be normal”.

I recently had a discussion with him about some of the insanity that is going on in the Chareidi world in Israel. (Especially in my community of Beit Shemesh.) He said to me that he grew up among Gedolim. (He’s about my age, so we’re talking approximately 40 years ago.) He said that these Gedolim were “normal”. He lamented the absence of this normalcy today.