Comments on: How Do You Stop a Baal Teshuva Back Slide?

By: Ron Coleman

Ron Coleman — Mon, 10 Dec 2007 16:39:47 +0000

There is nothing so critical for dealing with wrong turns and even G-d forbid U-turns in one’s Yiddishkeit as being surrounded by a strong, committed frum community. The phenomenon that I have in mind, in action, goes by many unpleasant names. They include “using others as a crutch” and “hypocrisy.” In fact, I advise using others as a crutch, and I think there is a lot of support for this in our tradition. Immersing yourself in frum life can keep you on track, and simulating being on track can be so much like being on track for real that, my goodness, you’re back on track. Even looking backwards you can be on track, you know.

And therein the hypocrisy point: Never rule it out. If the alternative to hypocrisy is yi’ush (surrender, abandonment) and the loss of everything, hypocrisy is easily preferable. But warning: This tack does not mix well with stridency or being judgmental.

Have I made myself remotely clear? It’s Monday morning, but let me try to sum it up this way: Our job every morning is to say Modeh Ani, wash up, go to shul (let me use the men’s model here for dynamic rhetoric, okay?) and say what it says in the siddur. Some days we’ll have more kavanah than others for the words we say; sometimes just saying them cause embarrassment over who we really are shlepping ourselves before Hashem that morning.

That is quite an accomplishment, that embarrassment.

By: Ellen L

Ellen L — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 01:19:25 +0000

Hi Michael: There is an anonymous Orthodox helpline called the Yittie Leibel Helpline, and they make referrals as well as take on-the-spot issues. Of course, they are not a subsitute for therapy, but one can call in periodically to ask for help in addressing a problem. But, like I said, they also give you referrals, and, since I’ve volunteered on that helpline, I know there are a couple therapists on their referral list who are listed as “specializing” in dealing with baalei tshuvah. The phone number is 718-HELP NOW. I hope this is helpful. Let me know if you are successful in finding one.

A freilichin Chanukah!

By: Michael

Michael — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 15:37:04 +0000

Hi Ellen,

I think that sounds about right.

I would love to find a frum therapist that I can afford and specializes in bael teshuva’s

Do you know of any in the NYC/Monsey area?

I would imagine there would have to be some, I just don’t know how to go about finding out, I am too embarrassed to ask my own rabbi or people I know. I know it sounds silly. I just don’t want people to know I am having difficult issues.

Thanks

By: yoni

yoni — Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:07:36 +0000

I will point out that torah is, by in large, a system of though with certain base materials and resources; and yet torah is amenable to a number of different approaches, which we often call hashkafot.

there is a halacha somewhere that a person may only quote a rav in defense of a practice if he A shares his general hashkafa (priorities, outlook) and B relies on him for most halachot.

this shows a certain connection between hashkafa and halacha. Yes it is true that there are many different oppinions in halacha, but it should be realized that when one takes a certain hashkafa and looks at the sources in the gemorah, naturaly they will yeild a certain formulation of halacha, that is tailored to the needs of that individual. This is not to say that halacha is a free for all, and generaly hashkafa also comes from torah sources, but those sources are sufficiently diverse to produce multitude of hashkafot that are tailored to the needs of a particular individual in living a torah life.

By: Ellen L.

Ellen L. — Wed, 05 Dec 2007 04:25:39 +0000

Hi Michael:
There are many people who come to frumkeit because of depression, unhappy childhoods with dysfunctional family situations, etc. and they find that frumkeit can fill the terrible void created by these situations. Unfortunately, the initial comfort created by the picture of a connected, loving community and philosophy often comes crashing down when the illusion of what we as baalei tshuva invested in turns out to be what it sometimes is, i.e. an illusion. I am a great FOL (friend of Lubovitch), and an admirer of their sincere outreach and efforts to love every Jew. I also was working at a school in Crown Heights at the time of the Rebbe’s “histalkus”, and was at the levaya. Some of what I saw there was plain frightening, including some young women dancing on the steps of 770 with tambourines. I believe this was not simply about a significant portion of the community believing that the Rebbe is Moshiach, but about some unhappy people finding in Chabad having found a therapy for their unresolved issues, and the Rebbe as a parent figure that “replaced” the real, but “less than perfect” (that said tongue-in-cheek) parents. So with the tragic loss of the Rebbe, the entire community fell into chaos, some of it consisting of a number of lost souls who still hadn’t resolved those earlier issues.
Michael, I am not in any way suggesting that your pursuit of frumkeit through Chabad was anything less than pure and sincere. And Torah Judaism, Chabad-style or otherwise, can offer a meaningful life to a person with “unresolved issues”. However, when part of our investment in frumkeit is an unconscious effort to make peace with an unhappy past, and real life sets in, then the resulting disillusionment can appear to be one more bad choice we made, in this case, Torah Judaism. May I humbly suggest that you not throw out the baby with the bath water, and find a frum therapist who specializes in baalei tshuva, so you can hopefully attempt to find some balance between that which was your disappointment with Yiddishkeit, and your disappointment in your loss of the dream of finally feeling whole. If I’m off base here, I apologize for being presumptuous.

By: Michael

Michael — Tue, 04 Dec 2007 16:03:26 +0000

Hi Ellen,

To be honest I became more religious through depression. What I mean is I went through some horrible traumatic events when I was a child. And been in and out of therapy and on medicine for a number of years, nothing really worked.

So I decided to do some soul searching, I never believed in Hashem for most of my life becuase I always had the classic question how can Hashem allow these bad things happen to me as a child? I explored other religions and philosophy and at one point got attached to Buddhism, but something was still missing. Eventually I picked up a book by Rabbi Kaplan called Jewish meditation and had no idea, the concept even existed in Judaism. So I decided I really should find out more about Judaism since I realize I know very little, maybe there is something there. That was the start from there I found chabad, and discovered there is so much depth to Judaism that I never existed like I had no idea there was a talmud.

By: Ellen L.

Ellen L. — Sun, 02 Dec 2007 21:29:14 +0000

Michael: What made you decide to become frum in the first place? Did you have a rov at the time? Did you participate in any community, or get involved in any shul? I can’t speak for the others on this blog, but for myself, I became frum as a teen in the late sixties when the whole world was turning upside down and frumkeit seemed “safe”. I needed boundaries at a time when there were none. There was a beauty and a closeness within the Orthodox community at the time in my home town (Cleveland). I began yeshiva then in the eleventh grade, and since we were a small town yeshiva, girls from every end of the spectrum and in between were my classmates. And we all managed to get along just fine (most of the time). I, too, was dismayed to find the community become progressively more divided over the years (granted I live in Brooklyn now where it’s worse), and I still struggle with that, as well as with other issues. But for me, I’ve been around long enough to realize that no other truths can adequately replace the Torah. I’ve had to find a comfort level for myself within frumkeit, and at my age, I don’t care as much what the others think of my minhagim. I need to continue learning and pursuing what works for me.
As for separate seating in waiting rooms and elsewhere, when I’m in Rome (or Williamsburg) I do as the Williamsburgers do only because they’d object if I’d move into the other side of the waiting room. But I still drive when going through Williamsburg even though the women there do not, because I don’t offend them if I do. I try to do what I am comfortable with without offending others (and keeping within the boundaries of Halacha).
As others have said, the Tanya is considered an important sefer. But for Lubavitch it is learned almost exclusively (although certainly not entirely).
Ellen L.

By: Dovid

Dovid — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 00:32:08 +0000

Michael,

Delve into Tanya if that is what your neshamah seems to “naturally” be attracted to. It is important, as pointed out by earlier postings, to learn the halacha. Be sure to keep that in mind always. We must become learned in our Torah obligations, and make this part of our regular learning experience. I would suggest a seder of learning that includes different facits of Torah. If Chasidus is what “calls to you”, I would not ignore it. We each must find our own derechim, and even though our own personal backgrounds may have been from a different derech than that which we are attracted to, we must listen to our pintele yid and gain inspiration that spiritually keeps us moving forward. “Keep you eye on the light”!

By: Bob Miller

Bob Miller — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 01:26:09 +0000

In fact we should judge movements by their adherents’ general pattern of actions. Actions do speak louder than words. The main thing is not to accept that certain types of actions are typical for members of a group, unless unbiased evidence really supports that belief. Also not to look at certain facets of their lives or at certain individuals while ignoring the big picture.

Too often have I heard or read that we shouldn’t judge Judaism by the Jews! The grain of truth in that is only a grain. Granted that few live perfect Torah lives (yet), we Torah Jews should be proud of our virtues and accomplishments, and emphatically reject our critics’ belief that they are better than us.

We shouldn’t rest on our laurels either, because teshuva applies to all at every stage.

By: sarah

sarah — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 00:40:06 +0000

As far as Chassidus, being attracted to it, and their stringencies: I have always been attracted to Chassidus as well. They are passionate and I find myself drawn to them. There is nothing wrong with that as far as I am aware. I think it’s good to learn from and appreciate everybody. As Mark pointed out, their minhagim about separation of sexes is not halacha. They would not say it is. There is nothing wrong with their practice and there is nothing wrong with mixed waiting rooms. My son takes Monsey Trails where they have a mechitza across the bus. Initially, he being a teenager unaccustomed to that practice on a bus, thought it comical, s omething to joke about. He has now come to respect it, albeit wishing it weren’t there no doubt, but has learned to respect it nevertheless because it comes from good motives, and who are we to judge that. As far as judging other religions: Mark has made an important point here as well. We reject other religions because they go against the Torah. We don’t judge them based on people’s actions, at least we shouldn’t. Nor should we judge any group that way. There will always be radicals, they will always be the minority, in any religion, group, culture.

By: Mark Frankel

Mark Frankel — Wed, 28 Nov 2007 20:24:48 +0000

Greg

We primarily judge other religions as incorrect because they go against the Torah, not because of the issues you mentioned. They were rejected long before the crusades or modern day terrorism.

Can I make a small request not to turn this thread into a Comparative Religions discussion. It’s an important discussion but I think there are more on-topic issues to discuss in this thread.

I will tell you that one of our contributors does have a Jews, Judaism and judgment piece in the works.

By: Greg T

Greg T — Wed, 28 Nov 2007 19:30:44 +0000

I’ve heard R’ Wade say this, but why can’t other religions/”theisms” be treated the same way?

Why not “not judge Islam by the Muslim terrorists”?
Why not “not judge Christians by the Crusaders”

sometimes, we’re very hypocritical when we criticize other religions because of its followers while turning a blind eye to ours.

Same goes with Pascal’s wager.

By: A Talmid

A Talmid — Wed, 28 Nov 2007 18:20:07 +0000

I heard the former pastor and ger tzedek, Rav Asher Wade, say that before he converted he already determined that “You don’t judge Judaism by the Jews, rather by the Torah”.

By: Yaakov Astor

Yaakov Astor — Wed, 28 Nov 2007 17:25:05 +0000

Good moshol, Menachem. I was thinking the same thing.

By: Menachem Lipkin

Menachem Lipkin — Wed, 28 Nov 2007 17:11:46 +0000

Michael,

I agree with Rabbi Scher in that your “backslide” may be necessary and possibly not even such a bad thing. It’s similar to the current stock market situation. The Dow is off quite a bit from its recent high. At this point we’re not sure if this is a “correction” or the beginning of a “Bear” market. Hopefully it’s a correction.

A correction is a necessary and healthy backslide in stock prices. After some rapid growth, it gives investors a chance to take some profits, reasses their portfolios to make sure they’re investing their money in the right areas, and prepare for the next big upswing which will take them to even greater heights.

As long as you’re experiencing a correction you should view it as a similar opportunity. Which may be exactly what you’re doing by reaching out in this forum.