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	<title>Comments on: A Touchy Subject</title>
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	<link>http://www.beyondbt.com/2006/10/24/a-touchy-subject/</link>
	<description>Baalei Teshuva / Baalei Teshuvah and Other Growth Oriented Jews</description>
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		<title>By: Stanley Kards</title>
		<link>http://www.beyondbt.com/2006/10/24/a-touchy-subject/comment-page-1/#comment-68488</link>
		<dc:creator>Stanley Kards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2007 02:55:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beyondbt.com/?p=532#comment-68488</guid>
		<description>Again it is the contrast between the ideals of Judaism and the reality of those who must deal with life&#039;s disappointments and pressures.

In general, I would say that Judaism in this area seeks to lessen one&#039;s thoughts and pre-occuaption with sex, but I find it backfires, that as one has to make arrangments with less potential days available, ther is more disappointments built-into the system, of course this is all Judaism not just Charedi.

I prefer a Judaism that accepts that one does good, and one should be happy for this good.

I don;t beleive that most men can control this inclination however they think that they can.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Again it is the contrast between the ideals of Judaism and the reality of those who must deal with life&#8217;s disappointments and pressures.</p>
<p>In general, I would say that Judaism in this area seeks to lessen one&#8217;s thoughts and pre-occuaption with sex, but I find it backfires, that as one has to make arrangments with less potential days available, ther is more disappointments built-into the system, of course this is all Judaism not just Charedi.</p>
<p>I prefer a Judaism that accepts that one does good, and one should be happy for this good.</p>
<p>I don;t beleive that most men can control this inclination however they think that they can.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben-David</title>
		<link>http://www.beyondbt.com/2006/10/24/a-touchy-subject/comment-page-1/#comment-15379</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben-David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Nov 2006 11:46:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beyondbt.com/?p=532#comment-15379</guid>
		<description>... it&#039;s great to say prayers about this, but there is also a physical side.

Regular, *strenuous* physical exercise goes a long way to absorbing the energy of this drive in a healthy way - even for us married guys. Are you working up a sweat for at least 30 minutes, 2-3 times a week? It is SOOOOO unfortunate that many Yeshivos neglect this, or look down on it.

Another very important thing is stretching and relaxation. A lot of men carry life&#039;s stresses and worries around in their hips and spine, as nervous tension (also in the neck and jaw area). Regularly stretching and relaxing these areas - after exercise or before bed - can prevent the release of these tensions by other means. Put together a routine of stretches for the (lower) back, hips, and legs, and do it every night, yoga-style - hold the positions and breathe deeply until the area relaxes.

These approaches work!

Here&#039;s one way to bring phsyical and spiritual  together: when you bow forward in Shemoneh Esrei - breathe in and wait until your neck and spine relax. This is the point of the kneeling and bowing movements - relinquishing and subjecting your will to G-d&#039;s kingship and His desires.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230; it&#8217;s great to say prayers about this, but there is also a physical side.</p>
<p>Regular, *strenuous* physical exercise goes a long way to absorbing the energy of this drive in a healthy way &#8211; even for us married guys. Are you working up a sweat for at least 30 minutes, 2-3 times a week? It is SOOOOO unfortunate that many Yeshivos neglect this, or look down on it.</p>
<p>Another very important thing is stretching and relaxation. A lot of men carry life&#8217;s stresses and worries around in their hips and spine, as nervous tension (also in the neck and jaw area). Regularly stretching and relaxing these areas &#8211; after exercise or before bed &#8211; can prevent the release of these tensions by other means. Put together a routine of stretches for the (lower) back, hips, and legs, and do it every night, yoga-style &#8211; hold the positions and breathe deeply until the area relaxes.</p>
<p>These approaches work!</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s one way to bring phsyical and spiritual  together: when you bow forward in Shemoneh Esrei &#8211; breathe in and wait until your neck and spine relax. This is the point of the kneeling and bowing movements &#8211; relinquishing and subjecting your will to G-d&#8217;s kingship and His desires.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Brizel</title>
		<link>http://www.beyondbt.com/2006/10/24/a-touchy-subject/comment-page-1/#comment-14298</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Brizel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Oct 2006 14:10:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beyondbt.com/?p=532#comment-14298</guid>
		<description>JR-My understanding was that these Halachos are certainly in SA.Yet, as this Gadol pointed out, one cannot expect a Tzadik, Ben Torah or BT to be on the same wavelength as to their application to their lives. Very often, when a Posek writes &quot;HaMachmir Tovah Alav Bracha&quot;-that means for that person, as opposed to others who have other legitimate Baalei Mesorah to ask their questions to who may render a contrary or modifying opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JR-My understanding was that these Halachos are certainly in SA.Yet, as this Gadol pointed out, one cannot expect a Tzadik, Ben Torah or BT to be on the same wavelength as to their application to their lives. Very often, when a Posek writes &#8220;HaMachmir Tovah Alav Bracha&#8221;-that means for that person, as opposed to others who have other legitimate Baalei Mesorah to ask their questions to who may render a contrary or modifying opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: Chaim G.</title>
		<link>http://www.beyondbt.com/2006/10/24/a-touchy-subject/comment-page-1/#comment-14136</link>
		<dc:creator>Chaim G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Oct 2006 18:51:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beyondbt.com/?p=532#comment-14136</guid>
		<description>That WAS my intention Bob.  But I think you&#039;ll admit that &quot;dead&quot; chasidim of any denomination (including non-Chasidic ones if you get my drift) i.e. those that think that they may bypass a personal rabbi for guidance and draw their own conclusions from disputed or controversial texts can be dangerous.  Most of all to themselves.

(FYI in pre-war Europe the Breslovers were collectively known as the “Toita Chasidim”= the Dead Chasidim.  This was not a pejorative.  It merely meant that in spite of some very highly respected madrichim and group leaders there &lt;i&gt;central&lt;/i&gt; Rebbe had not been among the living for well over a century.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That WAS my intention Bob.  But I think you&#8217;ll admit that &#8220;dead&#8221; chasidim of any denomination (including non-Chasidic ones if you get my drift) i.e. those that think that they may bypass a personal rabbi for guidance and draw their own conclusions from disputed or controversial texts can be dangerous.  Most of all to themselves.</p>
<p>(FYI in pre-war Europe the Breslovers were collectively known as the “Toita Chasidim”= the Dead Chasidim.  This was not a pejorative.  It merely meant that in spite of some very highly respected madrichim and group leaders there <i>central</i> Rebbe had not been among the living for well over a century.)</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Miller</title>
		<link>http://www.beyondbt.com/2006/10/24/a-touchy-subject/comment-page-1/#comment-14118</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Oct 2006 17:50:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beyondbt.com/?p=532#comment-14118</guid>
		<description>As I guess Chaim G. understands, today&#039;s more typical Breslover relies on a personal rabbi for guidance as well as the texts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I guess Chaim G. understands, today&#8217;s more typical Breslover relies on a personal rabbi for guidance as well as the texts.</p>
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		<title>By: JR</title>
		<link>http://www.beyondbt.com/2006/10/24/a-touchy-subject/comment-page-1/#comment-14116</link>
		<dc:creator>JR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Oct 2006 17:34:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beyondbt.com/?p=532#comment-14116</guid>
		<description>&quot;The Shulkhan Oruch, and even the Mishna Brura lists a number of halakhos that are L’halakha but not L’Ma’aseh&quot;

ah, but is this one of them?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The Shulkhan Oruch, and even the Mishna Brura lists a number of halakhos that are L’halakha but not L’Ma’aseh&#8221;</p>
<p>ah, but is this one of them?</p>
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		<title>By: Chaim G.</title>
		<link>http://www.beyondbt.com/2006/10/24/a-touchy-subject/comment-page-1/#comment-14114</link>
		<dc:creator>Chaim G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Oct 2006 17:27:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beyondbt.com/?p=532#comment-14114</guid>
		<description>Sounds quite normative and routine checks-and-balances to me.  Torah She-Ba&#039;al peh continues to unfold.  One needs to be plugged into a living breathing link in the Mesorah, not just to the written word.  To many this is what makes some of the factions within the large tent known as Breslov &quot;dangerous&quot;.

The Shulkhan Oruch, and even the Mishna Brura lists a number of halakhos that are L&#039;halakha but not L&#039;Ma&#039;aseh (SB and anony-sources, please help me on this one!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sounds quite normative and routine checks-and-balances to me.  Torah She-Ba&#8217;al peh continues to unfold.  One needs to be plugged into a living breathing link in the Mesorah, not just to the written word.  To many this is what makes some of the factions within the large tent known as Breslov &#8220;dangerous&#8221;.</p>
<p>The Shulkhan Oruch, and even the Mishna Brura lists a number of halakhos that are L&#8217;halakha but not L&#8217;Ma&#8217;aseh (SB and anony-sources, please help me on this one!)</p>
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		<title>By: JR</title>
		<link>http://www.beyondbt.com/2006/10/24/a-touchy-subject/comment-page-1/#comment-14112</link>
		<dc:creator>JR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Oct 2006 17:16:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beyondbt.com/?p=532#comment-14112</guid>
		<description>&quot;I know of a major American Gadol who has told anyone who asks that those sections are for Tzadikim.&quot;

And what is that supposed to mean? That they&#039;re optional, unless you&#039;re a tzaddik? Sounds very dangerous to me, to relegate select halachos as beyond the reach of most people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I know of a major American Gadol who has told anyone who asks that those sections are for Tzadikim.&#8221;</p>
<p>And what is that supposed to mean? That they&#8217;re optional, unless you&#8217;re a tzaddik? Sounds very dangerous to me, to relegate select halachos as beyond the reach of most people.</p>
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		<title>By: Yoel Ben-Avraham</title>
		<link>http://www.beyondbt.com/2006/10/24/a-touchy-subject/comment-page-1/#comment-14041</link>
		<dc:creator>Yoel Ben-Avraham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Oct 2006 03:49:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beyondbt.com/?p=532#comment-14041</guid>
		<description>Two short contributions:
When I decided it was time to discuss these topics with each of my boys, the basic premise was that everything HaShem created CAN be for good or can be abused.

The sexual attraction thing I equated to the attraction of magnets, and also communicated that unfortunately some people&#039;s &quot;magnets&quot; are mixed up and attracted to the wrong gender!

As for the spilling of seed, it was much easier and more direct.  Everything has its time and place.  Within the time &amp; place Judaism promotes (before 24 yrs of age and within marriage) everything is a blessing.  Wasted outside that scope, it has tremendous destructive potential.

It seems to have worked so far!  Two out of six married in first year after the army/hesder experience and at least one more this year.  Now I&#039;ve got other problems to contemplate!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two short contributions:<br />
When I decided it was time to discuss these topics with each of my boys, the basic premise was that everything HaShem created CAN be for good or can be abused.</p>
<p>The sexual attraction thing I equated to the attraction of magnets, and also communicated that unfortunately some people&#8217;s &#8220;magnets&#8221; are mixed up and attracted to the wrong gender!</p>
<p>As for the spilling of seed, it was much easier and more direct.  Everything has its time and place.  Within the time &amp; place Judaism promotes (before 24 yrs of age and within marriage) everything is a blessing.  Wasted outside that scope, it has tremendous destructive potential.</p>
<p>It seems to have worked so far!  Two out of six married in first year after the army/hesder experience and at least one more this year.  Now I&#8217;ve got other problems to contemplate!</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen </title>
		<link>http://www.beyondbt.com/2006/10/24/a-touchy-subject/comment-page-1/#comment-14030</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen </dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Oct 2006 01:23:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beyondbt.com/?p=532#comment-14030</guid>
		<description>Corrected address:

http://www.briskodesh.org/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Corrected address:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.briskodesh.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.briskodesh.org/</a></p>
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		<title>By: DK</title>
		<link>http://www.beyondbt.com/2006/10/24/a-touchy-subject/comment-page-1/#comment-14023</link>
		<dc:creator>DK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Oct 2006 00:04:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beyondbt.com/?p=532#comment-14023</guid>
		<description>Bob Miller,

More like &quot;chicken is parve.&quot; ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob Miller,</p>
<p>More like &#8220;chicken is parve.&#8221; ;)</p>
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		<title>By: anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.beyondbt.com/2006/10/24/a-touchy-subject/comment-page-1/#comment-14020</link>
		<dc:creator>anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Oct 2006 23:29:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beyondbt.com/?p=532#comment-14020</guid>
		<description>Like a fire in the hearth , shedding light and warming bones,

Cooking, baking, washing, sustaining,

Knowing and loving all that can be known,

Such is love that’s harnessed, focused by refraining and containing,



Unleashed it burns free, destroying and consuming,

All within it and those that dared to stand in loves path,

And in the stillness that follows storming, to dissipation dooming,

Loves arsonists, dejected in self-directed wrath,


For hell hath no fury like love to hatred turned,

And love of self is no love at all,

Play at matchless and be burned,

By spurning the prayer shawl,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like a fire in the hearth , shedding light and warming bones,</p>
<p>Cooking, baking, washing, sustaining,</p>
<p>Knowing and loving all that can be known,</p>
<p>Such is love that’s harnessed, focused by refraining and containing,</p>
<p>Unleashed it burns free, destroying and consuming,</p>
<p>All within it and those that dared to stand in loves path,</p>
<p>And in the stillness that follows storming, to dissipation dooming,</p>
<p>Loves arsonists, dejected in self-directed wrath,</p>
<p>For hell hath no fury like love to hatred turned,</p>
<p>And love of self is no love at all,</p>
<p>Play at matchless and be burned,</p>
<p>By spurning the prayer shawl,</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Brizel</title>
		<link>http://www.beyondbt.com/2006/10/24/a-touchy-subject/comment-page-1/#comment-14010</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Brizel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Oct 2006 22:23:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beyondbt.com/?p=532#comment-14010</guid>
		<description>I suspect that many on this site may have seen or been terrified by the English KSA&#039;s view on this issue. Likewise, the end of the second volume of the MB contains many halachos in this area. I know of a major American Gadol who has told anyone who asks that those sections are for Tzadikim. I think that those sections are not exactly the first ones that I would talk to a BT about-either before or after his marriage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suspect that many on this site may have seen or been terrified by the English KSA&#8217;s view on this issue. Likewise, the end of the second volume of the MB contains many halachos in this area. I know of a major American Gadol who has told anyone who asks that those sections are for Tzadikim. I think that those sections are not exactly the first ones that I would talk to a BT about-either before or after his marriage.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Brizel</title>
		<link>http://www.beyondbt.com/2006/10/24/a-touchy-subject/comment-page-1/#comment-14009</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Brizel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Oct 2006 22:19:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beyondbt.com/?p=532#comment-14009</guid>
		<description>One issue that deserves more discussion is the view of Chazal and Rishonim on the issue of sexuality-as opposed to tznius.First of all, Chazal certainly discussed issues involving sexuality both in terms of Halacha and Aggadah. There are all sorts of sugyos on this subject in numerous Masectos involving all sort of halachos. The Rishonim also have different POVs ranging from Rambam&#039;s POV, which views sexuality basically as a concession to human needs to the Raavad and Ramban who view sexuality within marriage as a very beautiful mitzvah and who both wrote what we would call &quot;manuals&quot; on this subject-Igeres HaKodesh and Baalei HaNefesh.In fact, none less than Ramban attributes Rambam&#039;s view to that of Aristotle! On the Aggadic side, there is a famous Gemara involving one Amorah in Brachos who sneaked under his rebbe&#039;s bed and when confronted by his rebbe said &quot;it is Torah and I have to learn it.&quot; OTOH, it can be said that the influence of the Zohar and the rise of Chasidus led to a less rationalistic and philosophical view which finds itself in the Chasidishe and Yeshivishe worlds-especially within Gerer, which has developed its own hanhagos and chumros in this area. Although I am not a fan of R S Heilman&#039;s approach, in his book on the Charedim of Yerushalayim, he wrote beautifully on how one Chasidishe couple went for the equivalent of counselling in this area. I reccomend it for anyone who wonders how Chasidim deal with problems of this nature.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One issue that deserves more discussion is the view of Chazal and Rishonim on the issue of sexuality-as opposed to tznius.First of all, Chazal certainly discussed issues involving sexuality both in terms of Halacha and Aggadah. There are all sorts of sugyos on this subject in numerous Masectos involving all sort of halachos. The Rishonim also have different POVs ranging from Rambam&#8217;s POV, which views sexuality basically as a concession to human needs to the Raavad and Ramban who view sexuality within marriage as a very beautiful mitzvah and who both wrote what we would call &#8220;manuals&#8221; on this subject-Igeres HaKodesh and Baalei HaNefesh.In fact, none less than Ramban attributes Rambam&#8217;s view to that of Aristotle! On the Aggadic side, there is a famous Gemara involving one Amorah in Brachos who sneaked under his rebbe&#8217;s bed and when confronted by his rebbe said &#8220;it is Torah and I have to learn it.&#8221; OTOH, it can be said that the influence of the Zohar and the rise of Chasidus led to a less rationalistic and philosophical view which finds itself in the Chasidishe and Yeshivishe worlds-especially within Gerer, which has developed its own hanhagos and chumros in this area. Although I am not a fan of R S Heilman&#8217;s approach, in his book on the Charedim of Yerushalayim, he wrote beautifully on how one Chasidishe couple went for the equivalent of counselling in this area. I reccomend it for anyone who wonders how Chasidim deal with problems of this nature.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Miller</title>
		<link>http://www.beyondbt.com/2006/10/24/a-touchy-subject/comment-page-1/#comment-14006</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Oct 2006 21:58:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beyondbt.com/?p=532#comment-14006</guid>
		<description>DK said

&quot;I am pretty open about where I stand on my own site. I would describe myself as secular-Orthodox.&quot;

Maybe like one of those meato-vegetarians?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DK said</p>
<p>&#8220;I am pretty open about where I stand on my own site. I would describe myself as secular-Orthodox.&#8221;</p>
<p>Maybe like one of those meato-vegetarians?</p>
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